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Thread: Help w/ Specs Please - TiLite Aero Z, Series 2

  1. #1
    Senior Member Jonna's Avatar
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    Question Help w/ Specs Please - TiLite Aero Z, Series 2

    I’ve hammered out these specs myself so any and all suggestions, feedback, questions or concerns would be appreciated. I’ve also posted a few questions at the end of the specs listing. I’m currently in a Quickie 2; before that I was in a depot chair, the “discharged from rehab Battle Tank” – an Invacare 9XT. I used the specs from those chairs as only a loose guide as I know you can’t make direct correlations between different manufacturers or from a folding to a rigid frame. I’ve also taken into account SCI_OTR’s “theory of relativity,” so I hope I’ve come reasonably close to getting it right. The hundreds of posts I’ve read here on CC with specs, CADs, questions, pictures, problems, etc. have been immeasurably helpful.

    My specs: 67”, 140#, left hemiplegia due to TBI (I use my less affected right arm and leg to self-propel, hence the low front STF and need for the flip-back footrest). I hope to go as light and lean as I can.

    Seat Width: 17”
    Seat Depth: 17”
    Front Seat to Floor: 16”
    Rear Seat to Floor: 14.5”
    Front Angle: 80° or 85° (Not sure – want to minimize frame length & maximize ease of getting the chair into the car.)
    Front Seat Width (Taper): 3.5” Standard Taper (Standard, non-V Front End)
    Seat to Footrest: 14”
    Titanium Flip-Back Footrest
    Footrest Width: 11”
    Folding & Locking Adjustable Back w/ 4” Deep Rigidizer Bar
    Seat Back Height: Medium (12”–16.5”) Unless it’s reasonable to stick a 10” MaTRx back on Ti’s short seat back which is 8 ½” - 11 ½”.
    No Push Handles
    Seat Back Angle: 83°
    COG: Not sure - 2.5” - ?
    Rear Wheel Spacing: .75”
    Camber: 4°
    Front Wheels: 4” x .75” plastic wheel w/ poly tire
    Fork Stem: TiLite Standard Fork
    Rear Wheels & Tires: 24” Skyway Mag; Solid Tires, Herringbone tread (Maybe – see question 5 below.)
    Axels: Stainless Quick Release
    Pushrim: Aluminum - Silver Anodized
    Black Aluminum Scissor Locks
    Side Guards: Aluminum – Small, Rigid Removable
    Back Upholstery: Velcro Adjustable
    Seat Upholstery: Tension Adjustable Bolt On
    Spec Questions
    For reference, here’s the link to the Aero Z Order Form: http://tilite.com/assets/pdf/TiLite_AeroZ_series2.pdf

    1. It’s my understanding that as a general rule, the factory sends a chair out with the front seat height set in the second / middle hole of the fork. Does anyone know if this is correct? If so, the second hole would set my chair at 16”, making adjustments to 15.5” and 16.5” possible. (If Ti doesn’t “default” to the middle position, I may re-think my front STF).

    2. Re: Front Wheels – Per the specs above, if I opt for the no additional cost 4” x .75” plastic wheel with poly tire, can I remove these and put on a pair of soft rolls? I’m asking because I notice that in pricing 4” soft rolls, I see them listed as 4x1, not 4x .75. I suppose spacers could take up the .25” slack, but am not sure this okay to do.

    3. Just want to make sure I’ve understood the order form correctly re: p. 8, Seat Upholstery selection ~ I’m ordering the chair with the no taper (non-V) Standard Front End (p. 3 of form) with the 3.5” taper (p. 4). I’m selecting (and would prefer) the standard, Tension Adjustable Bolt On Seat Upholstery (p. 8). Is this correct - ?

    4. I measured the width of my feet wearing a pair of slippers and a pair of hiking boots – 9.25”. What is the actual width of the footplate surface (titanium flip-back footrest) vs. the width of the footrest measurement between the inside of the frame “downtubes” ? I just want to be sure the actual footplate itself is wide enough to allow both feet to rest flat on the plate.

    5. I’m wondering if there is any added value, in terms of durability or reliability, in ordering a titanium back release bar and / or titanium fork stems. If the differences are negligible for an aluminum chair and these parts are significantly heavier than their aluminum counterparts (as is the titanium camber tube) I’ll stick with the standard aluminum back release and fork stems. (This will allow me to skip the Skyway Mags with solids and apply the savings to purchase 24” 5 spoke X-Core Wheels with Shox solids from sportaid (link here: http://www.sportaid.com/24-x-1-x-core-5-spoke-everyday-wheel-25-540.html ).
    Do not confuse silence with consent or fatigue for indifference.

  2. #2
    Jonna, be aware as you read on, some of my recommendations are pricey . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    . . .i use my less affected right arm and leg to self-propel, hence the low front stf and need for the flip-back footrest.
    i have this footrest; self propelling with it is very limited. For truly effective foot propelling, i recommend a custom rigidizer bar and some type of swing away foot rest (see attachments in my next post).
    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    front angle: 80° or 85° (not sure – want to minimize frame length & maximize ease of getting the chair into the car.)
    from my calcs, an 85deg frame will be about 1” shorter than an 80deg frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    seat back angle: 83°
    are you sure? they measure from the front to the floor ignoring the seat angle; 83 leans forward quite a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    cog: Not sure - 2.5” - ?
    2.5” sounds good, you can always adjust it later. Mine is 3”, which is slightly tippy with my loaded backpack.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    black aluminum scissor locks
    i had these and took them off. You have to reach way under the chair on each side to operate them. I have hub locks (d's), which are superbly easy to operate with one hand, and you can mount the lever almost anywhere (mine is on the backrest) a less expensive option is the Quickie Compact Scissor locks, which have received great reviews on this site; you'll still need to lock each wheel independently.
    Attachment 41099

    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    side guards: Aluminum – small, rigid removable
    i have the standard with 14.5” rsh, 24” wheels, and 3” cog. For me small would be too small.
    Attachment 41098

    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    1. It’s my understanding that as a general rule, the factory sends a chair out with the front seat height set in the second / middle hole of the fork. Does anyone know if this is correct?
    don't know. I ordered 6” casters, which fit only in the bottom hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    2. Re: Front wheels – per the specs above, if i opt for the no additional cost 4” x .75” plastic wheel with poly tire, can i remove these and put on a pair of soft rolls?
    pretty sure, yes (75%). The width refers to the rubber not to the hub.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    3. Just want to make sure i’ve understood the order form correctly re: P. 8, seat upholstery selection ~ i’m ordering the chair with the no taper (non-v) standard front end (p. 3 of form) with the 3.5” taper (p. 4). I’m selecting (and would prefer) the standard, tension adjustable bolt on seat upholstery (p. 8). Is this correct - ?
    i agree with your interpretation. i'm not sure we're correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    4. I measured the width of my feet wearing a pair of slippers and a pair of hiking boots – 9.25”. What is the actual width of the footplate surface (titanium flip-back footrest) vs. The width of the footrest measurement between the inside of the frame “downtubes” ? I just want to be sure the actual footplate itself is wide enough to allow both feet to rest flat on the plate.
    i also have standard front end with 11” flipback footrest. My footplate is 8” wide.
    Attachment 41100

    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    5. I’m wondering if there is any added value, in terms of durability or reliability, in ordering a titanium back release bar and / or titanium fork stems. If the differences are negligible for an aluminum chair and these parts are significantly heavier than their aluminum counterparts (as is the titanium camber tube) i’ll stick with the standard aluminum back release and fork stems. (this will allow me to skip the skyway mags with solids and apply the savings to purchase 24” 5 spoke x-core wheels with shox solids from sportaid.
    imo a titanium back release is a waste on an aluminum chair. I think the ti fork stems have value only if you regularly expose your chair to water and/or salt (e.g., ocean or salted, snowy streets).NOTE: my fasteners (as seen in the pics) are non standard - I swapped the factory standard black to chrome and stainless as soon as I got my chair. That cost me about $225 in parts.
    Last edited by chasmengr; 07-11-2011 at 01:17 PM.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
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    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jonna View Post
    i use my less affected right arm and leg to self-propel, hence the low front stf and need for the flip-back footrest
    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    i have this footrest; self propelling with it is very limited. For truly effective foot propelling, i recommend a custom rigidizer bar and some type of swing away foot rest
    Attachment 41106
    Attachment 41108
    Attachment 41109
    Attachment 41110

  4. #4
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    from my calcs, an 85deg frame will be about 1” shorter than an 80deg frame.
    i checked when ordering my ZR, when changing frame angle the chair itself is no longer, they change where the bend starts, so no matter what front angle, the chair is the same length.

    17" wide seat? do you have wide hips?, you want to avoid getting a chair that is too wide of a seat.

    the aluminum scissor locks are crap, as you have to reach under seat. get the composite scissor locks, they work one handed and don't have to reach under seat.

    no sense in getting ti parts, especially if getting mags/solid tires and poly front casters, kinda goes against "going light". plus mags roll like dog turds

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jschism View Post
    i checked when ordering my ZR, when changing frame angle the chair itself is no longer, they change where the bend starts, so no matter what front angle, the chair is the same length.
    Great to know. Thanks!
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    i have this footrest; self propelling with it is very limited. For truly effective foot propelling, i recommend a custom rigidizer bar and some type of swing away foot rest (see attachments in my next post).
    http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=122660
    C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jschism View Post
    i checked when ordering my ZR, when changing frame angle the chair itself is no longer, they change where the bend starts, so no matter what front angle, the chair is the same length.
    If that's the case, I question the purpose of the two options? It was my understanding that a 90 degree frame came out further before the bend, but unless TiLite made a change, I expected the front to protrude further on an 80 vs. 85.
    C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

  8. #8
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brianm View Post
    If that's the case, I question the purpose of the two options? It was my understanding that a 90 degree frame came out further before the bend, but unless TiLite made a change, I expected the front to protrude further on an 80 vs. 85.
    i questioned it too, i thought by changing to an 85 over a 90, i wouldn't need to pay extra for a longer frame. Tilite said they just change where bend starts. i think there was another thread on this topic with the Tilite guy? maybe they just said that to get my extra $150 to add an inch to frame length?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jschism View Post
    i checked when ordering my ZR, when changing frame angle the chair itself is no longer, they change where the bend starts, so no matter what front angle, the chair is the same length.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brianm View Post
    If that's the case, I question the purpose of the two options? It was my understanding that a 90 degree frame came out further before the bend, but unless TiLite made a change, I expected the front to protrude further on an 80 vs. 85.
    Quote Originally Posted by jschism View Post
    i questioned it too, i thought by changing to an 85 over a 90, i wouldn't need to pay extra for a longer frame. Tilite said they just change where bend starts.
    Attachment 41111

    From an 85 to a 90, they start the bend differently. From an 80 to an 85, I think the bend starts at the same place. So I think an 85 and 90 have the same length, but an 85 is 1" shorter than 80. ??
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  10. #10
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    Attachment 41111

    From an 85 to a 90, they start the bend differently. From an 80 to an 85, I think the bend starts at the same place. So I think an 85 and 90 have the same length, but an 85 is 1" shorter than 80. ??
    possibly, she should verify that with Tilite directly, you know if asking a DME(or even here for that) you'll get all kinds of different answers. you just really know from manufacturer to manufacturer or chair to chair even how they might do it.

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