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Thread: Now what?

  1. #181
    Junior Member Brent A's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Wise Young;1552904]
    Quote Originally Posted by east dragon View Post

    East Dragon,

    It depends on your examination. If your neurological level is T11 (i.e. the dermatome for T11 is intact) and the neurological examination shows that you have no lower limb reflexes at all, this would suggest that you have had some damage to your lumbosacral spinal cord. In our original inclusion criteria, we had C5 through T10. However, we were convinced by the Kunming group that some patients who have a T11 neurological level may have lumbar reflexes and therefore allowed those patients to be included.

    On the other hand, as I was pointing out, we are developing a trial for those patients with lumbosacral injuries. We are still working on the spinal cord injury model (i.e. a T12 injury in rats) and will be testing the following in that model: umbilical cord blood mononuclear cells above and below the injury site, along with neural stem cells (derived from subventricular zone or from MUSE cells) transplanted into the lumbosacral region, lithium, and Cethrin (and other axonal growth inhibitor blockers). We don't know how these experiments will go but hope that we will have enough data to justify phase I/II trials in 2014.

    Wise.
    Dr. Young,
    This is GREAT NEWS!! I have been waiting for a LONG time for a clinical trial on lower thoracic and lumbosacral region injuries. I have yet to find a single clinical trial to address those with lower motor neuron lesions (No spasticity). As I have spoken to you several times regarding this dilema with SCI clincial trials to address this level of injury. Almost every trial is for T-10 and above as the complexities of lower thoracic injuries are not often addressed. Please keep me informed on how the trials are going for 2014. I would LOVE to be a part of these trials should they go to Phase I/II. Thank you for this update and if you hear of anything coming for lower thoracic and lumbosacral injuries PLEASE let me know.

    Regards,
    Brent

  2. #182
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    [QUOTE=Brent A;1553513]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post

    Dr. Young,
    This is GREAT NEWS!! I have been waiting for a LONG time for a clinical trial on lower thoracic and lumbosacral region injuries. I have yet to find a single clinical trial to address those with lower motor neuron lesions (No spasticity). As I have spoken to you several times regarding this dilema with SCI clincial trials to address this level of injury. Almost every trial is for T-10 and above as the complexities of lower thoracic injuries are not often addressed. Please keep me informed on how the trials are going for 2014. I would LOVE to be a part of these trials should they go to Phase I/II. Thank you for this update and if you hear of anything coming for lower thoracic and lumbosacral injuries PLEASE let me know.

    Regards,
    Brent
    Yes absolutely great news! I'll be watching with great interest as well.

    James

  3. #183
    Senior Member Foolish Old's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    FO,

    Spina bifida, as you know, is a complex and variable condition that results from incomplete development of the spinal canal and spinal cord. Umbilical cord blood mononuclear cells and lithium should have two effects on the spinal cord. First, it should stimulate the growth of long spinal tracts. Second, lithium should stimulate neural stem cells to proliferate. I don't know whether these two effects will have any benefits for spina bifida.

    Spina bifida also is likely to affect the lumbosacral spinal cord. Injuries to the lumbosacral spinal cord is likely to be more similar to spina bifida. We are planning clinical trials for therapies of lumbosacral injuries in 2014. At the present, we are starting studies of lumbosacral spinal cord contusions and plan to treat lumbosacral spinal cord injuries with neural stem cells, lithium, and cethrin (or other axonal growth inhibitor blocker).

    So, the answer to your question is "I don't know".

    Wise.
    Wise, thank you for your answer.
    Foolish

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

    "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

  4. #184
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    Even though this thread has contained some of the usual controversy, I found it to be the most informative of the cure threads that I have read in a long time. Dr. Young, you and your "partners" have made great strides in the four plus years that I have been a CC member. I hope you will keep updating us even if some do not interpret your words as you intended. I don't think you need to comment on each interpretation, unless you have more time than I think you do. And, the CC cure advocates have made great strides as well. I don't think it is possible for all of us to agree on who we should financially support. This is a problem (s) that must be attacked from a variety of angles. It would be nice to have one super dedicated foundation to collect our $$ and to help manage and direct the research, but we don't have that.
    2012 SCINetUSA Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
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  5. #185
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    AGAINST PESSIMISM: (1) It's dangerous." A Positive Mental Attitude was the number one item on the the survival checklist from the Big daddy of all checklist writers, The U.S. Air Force"- DEEP SURVIVAL Laurence Gonzales. Pessimism kills. (2) It ignores the serendipitous nature of many scientific breakthroughs- radium, penicillin, and from CC posts the story by J. Silver of how the possibilities of Chase were saved by the accident of (a) saving some of the rats (b) an assistant who payed attention and called Silver. (3) It ignores the fact that in research volume counts. Serendipity can't work if the continuous large scale work of research doesn't go on. Someone has to be there to recognize the anomaly. It's been 12 years since our accident and to my non-scientific mind the volume of research and the size of the accumulated SCI data base is massive.
    The chances of something positive happening increase every day.
    Where would the whole project be if Christopher Reeve had given in to pessimism?
    Pessimism- a luxury we can't afford.
    Finbar

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Finbar View Post
    AGAINST PESSIMISM: (1) It's dangerous." A Positive Mental Attitude was the number one item on the the survival checklist from the Big daddy of all checklist writers, The U.S. Air Force"- DEEP SURVIVAL Laurence Gonzales. Pessimism kills. (2) It ignores the serendipitous nature of many scientific breakthroughs- radium, penicillin, and from CC posts the story by J. Silver of how the possibilities of Chase were saved by the accident of (a) saving some of the rats (b) an assistant who payed attention and called Silver. (3) It ignores the fact that in research volume counts. Serendipity can't work if the continuous large scale work of research doesn't go on. Someone has to be there to recognize the anomaly. It's been 12 years since our accident and to my non-scientific mind the volume of research and the size of the accumulated SCI data base is massive.
    The chances of something positive happening increase every day.
    Where would the whole project be if Christopher Reeve had given in to pessimism?
    Pessimism- a luxury we can't afford.
    Finbar

    same goes for excessive optimism
    ASIA A walking due to cell treatment (Most exciting news since Christ woke up from the dead)

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by peterf View Post
    same goes for excessive optimism
    ASIA A walking due to cell treatment (Most exciting news since Christ woke up from the dead)
    Peter, have you been duped by a bogus Stem Cell clinic? Your posts all seem to have the same theme?

  8. #188
    All stem cell clinics are bogus what's your point ?
    I guess my pessimism saved both the day and my pocket
    I'm also very cautious about clinical trial results.
    i know very little about what's going on in China but stem cell inc's 4 year study is aimed at proving safety only.
    No credible efficacy has ever been proven.
    so yes ASIA A walking due to cell treatment would be the most exciting news since Christ woke up from the dead
    Last edited by peterf; 07-12-2012 at 12:54 PM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by peterf View Post
    so yes ASIA A walking due to cell treatment would be the most exciting news since Christ woke up from the dead
    This is the case:
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Some patients are walking. I did not say (and do not want to say) how many patients were walking and at what level. I do not know how many have bowel, bladder, or sexual function. You will have to wait until all the data is collected and the information is published.

    Wise.
    and since this is also the case:
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    In our Hong Kong trials, we had OT/PT examiners at each hospital as well as well as third-party examiners at the MacLehose rehabilitation center. In Kunming, we have designated nurse-doctor teams of experienced examiners (who are actually going to the homes of the patients to examine them because many cannot come back to the hospital for the followup exams). Credibility is not easy to achieve.
    Wise.
    I submit that there is more evidence of ASIA A walking due to cell treatment than there ever was for that silly resurrection story. We'll see in a few months.
    Last edited by KofQ; 07-12-2012 at 02:02 PM.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterf View Post
    All stem cell clinics are bogus what's your point ?
    I guess my pessimism saved both the day and my pocket
    I'm also very cautious about clinical trial results.
    i know very little about what's going on in China but stem cell inc's 4 year study is aimed at proving safety only.
    No credible efficacy has ever been proven.
    so yes ASIA A walking due to cell treatment would be the most exciting news since Christ woke up from the dead
    Dear, dear! A sweeping statement as stem cell therapies have offered genuine therapies, though not yet for SCI.
    2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
    Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

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