Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 95

Thread: Service Dog Quesion

  1. #11
    Senior Member wheeliecoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    East Haven, CT
    Posts
    2,600
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    Actually that's not true. There are certain areas service dogs are not allowed when the presence constitutes either a fundamental alteration or a threat to safety. For example, there are specific parts of zoos where service dogs can be prohibited because their presence upsets the zoo animals.
    Really? My friend has a service dog and has been to the Bronx Zoo several times...not once has she not been allowed to have her service dog in any part of the zoo that she was...and she has been to the monkey house, the lion house, etc. This surprises me.
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot nothing's going to get better. It's not." - Dr. Seuss

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by wheeliecoach View Post
    Really? My friend has a service dog and has been to the Bronx Zoo several times...not once has she not been allowed to have her service dog in any part of the zoo that she was...and she has been to the monkey house, the lion house, etc. This surprises me.
    Its usually places in the zoo that have free roaming animals that working dogs are asked to stay away from. Things like the petting zoo, or rainforest exhibits that allow people to walk through an exhibit with free roaming butterflies, birds, frogs, ect (CA Academy of Sciences barrs dogs from their rainforest exhibit) . Also any place that has sensitive animals.

    I had working dogs for a good 15 years, but never took them to zoos. I'm sure though if you showed up with a working dog they would tell you if there were restrictions in the park. If they don't then I'm sure its all good I miss the Lion House at the SF Zoo, it was awesome to see them fed!

  3. #13
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    3,070
    Ok, this is probably going to end up long but you asked a question, might as well answer it right!

    First, I’d like to clarify what defines a service dog. According to the reformation act implemented March 15th 2011 a service dog is defined as:
    Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not service animals for the purposes of this definition. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the handler´s disability. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to, assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks, alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds, providing non-violent protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, assisting an individual during a seizure, alerting individuals to the presence of allergens, retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone, providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities, and helping persons with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors. The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.
    Bolding mine, to clarify the difference between a service animal and an emotional support animal or therapy animal. (note, service dogs in training are also not addressed by the DOJ)

    Next, service dogs are NOT covered under the ADA. There are 3 sections to the ADA, title I, II, and III. I deals with employment and is overseen by the EEOC. Titles II and III are overseen by the Department of Justice. The DOJ regulations are what address service animals. The ADA is civil law and not a place or people that can enforce something. The DOJ handles the law. Since its civil law regarding rights, unless a particular area has criminal law written regarding service animals no one can be taken to jail or arrested for violating the civil law. (an off note, depending on the local police they may or may not be of assistance in helping mediate access issues). Most of you are probably already familiar with this, knowing that when ADA accommodations are not there you have to legally handle it with lawyers and civil court.

    Lets take an example of a violation. Say you have a service dog, and move into an apartment that does not allow pets. Your dog is a service dog, and must have accommodation, correct? Well yes, and no. For one everything falls under “reasonable accommodation.” These are civil rights, not criminal, so you cannot just say “I have a service dog, you must allow it.” You’re going to need to follow the right channels and submit a written request for accommodation. If that accommodation is denied, you may take it to court. In court you’ll have to prove you are disabled, that your dog IS a service dog, and that your request for accommodation was reasonable.

    Now that that’s been said… The DOJ has discussed breed bans and service dogs in the Federal Register 28 CFR Part 36. Though this discussion has been made (and some were for, and some against breed bans) there is currently no regulatory law in place that addresses service dogs and breed bans.
    Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010...2010-21824.htm
    Breed limitations. A few commenters suggested that certain
    breeds of dogs should not be allowed to be used as service animals.
    Some suggested that the Department should defer to local laws
    restricting the breeds of dogs that individuals who reside in a
    community may own. Other commenters opposed breed restrictions,
    stating that the breed of a dog does not determine its propensity
    for aggression and that aggressive and non-aggressive dogs exist in
    all breeds.

    The Department does not believe that it is either appropriate or
    consistent with the ADA to defer to local laws that prohibit certain
    breeds of dogs based on local concerns that these breeds may have a
    history of unprovoked aggression or attacks. Such deference would
    have the effect of limiting the rights of persons with disabilities
    under the ADA who use certain service animals based on where they
    live rather than on whether the use of a particular animal poses a
    direct threat to the health and safety of others. Breed restrictions
    differ significantly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Some
    jurisdictions have no breed restrictions. Others have restrictions
    that, while well-meaning, have the unintended effect of screening
    out the very breeds of dogs that have successfully served as service
    animals for decades without a history of the type of unprovoked
    aggression or attacks that would pose a direct threat, e.g., German
    Shepherds. Other jurisdictions prohibit animals over a certain
    weight, thereby restricting breeds without invoking an express breed
    ban. In addition, deference to breed restrictions contained in local
    laws would have the unacceptable consequence of restricting travel
    by an individual with a disability who uses a breed that is
    acceptable and poses no safety hazards in the individual's home
    jurisdiction but is nonetheless banned by other jurisdictions.
    Public accommodations have the ability to determine, on a case-by-
    case basis, whether a particular service animal can be excluded
    based on that particular animal's actual behavior or history--not
    based on fears or generalizations about how an animal or breed might
    behave. This ability to exclude an animal whose behavior or history
    evidences a direct threat is sufficient to protect health and
    safety.
    Ok, so we’e addressed what a service dog is, who covers service dog law, who handles violations, and the fact that there is currently no law specifically addressing this issue. So, lets say you have a service dog that is a pit bull and your city bans them or you move to a city that bans them… You might end up fighting this in court. And this may be AFTER something happens such as your dog being confiscated.

    Lin
    Board member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    Next, service dogs are NOT covered under the ADA.
    Strange. The government seems to think service animals (dogs) and miniature horses are covered by the ADA...
    Source: ADA Service Animals, 2010 Update

    There are 3 sections to the ADA, title I, II, and III.
    Related materials can be found, here:
    Title I (EEOC)
    Title's II and III, revised 2010 (ada.gov)
    Revised Final Title II with integrated text (ada.gov)


    So, lets say you have a service dog that is a pit bull and your city bans them or you move to a city that bans them… You might end up fighting this in court. And this may be AFTER something happens such as your dog being confiscated.
    Collisions between local/state Breed Specific Legislation (BSL's) have occurred several times. As an example: a recent case involved a disabled veteran and retired police officer. In his decision for Sak & Leifer v. The City of Aurelia, Iowa (search Judge Bennett's decisions page for "sak"), federal district court Judge Bennett agreed: where a service animal is concerned, federal law overrules state and/or political subdivisions laws/ordinances banning specific breeds.

    Again, as for your claim that the ADA does not protect service animals and miniature horses, Judge Bennett and the Department of Justice (DOJ) seem to disagree with you. In Judge Bennett's decision (PDF!) on page 28, he states in part: "The DOJ has addressed such a contention in its Guidance To Revisions To ADA Regulation On Nondiscrimination On The Basis Of Disability In State And Local Government Services (Guidance To Revisions)..."

    For Title II entities (governments), you can read the federal code of regulations, Title 28 part 35 (link takes you directly to "Service Animals").

    For Title III entities (private/commercial e.g. hotels and restaurants), you can read the federal code of regulations, Title 28 part 36 (link takes you directly to "Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures" under which you may find "(c) Service animals" and "(6) Inquiries").

  5. #15
    ^glad you brought up mini horses.
    full sized horses, in some cases, have been used as service animals. I remember this lovely leopard appaloosa mare that the owner would literally ride in the store. She was perfectly behaved, it was in a small town. I don't think that type of situation would work well everywhere, or even what LAWS are in place to allow it. but it was a true working animal for her, and protected under the laws as such. really interesting story. but quite unique case very few horses are bomb proof enough.

    Okay sorry back on topic!
    I am almost positive SDs ARE covered under the ADA..

  6. #16
    What do you mean by the dog is "self trained"? If this means you trained the dog. That could be your biggest problem.
    If the animal is trained by one of the organizations that does that, you should have some paper work that you can present.

  7. #17
    ^it really doesn't matter. it shouldn't matter anyway, many dogs are trained by their owners and are amazing SDs. you are not required to have any paperwork. the dog simply must be medically necessary, perfectly behaved, and performing tasks for the owner based on the medical necessity. sometimes they are emotional support SDs. I've even heard of monkey being an emotional support service animal but it was denied access over time, which I can understand.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MillsWheels View Post
    ^it really doesn't matter. it shouldn't matter anyway, many dogs are trained by their owners and are amazing SDs. you are not required to have any paperwork. the dog simply must be medically necessary, perfectly behaved, and performing tasks for the owner based on the medical necessity. sometimes they are emotional support SDs. I've even heard of monkey being an emotional support service animal but it was denied access over time, which I can understand.
    Sorry "emotional support" dogs are not covered under the ADA

    Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.
    http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

  9. #19
    I have owner-trained Dobermans for my service divas. I know of others (Fred most famously, but he died a few years back) who use Dobies. I've been questioned because my HOA does not allow "bully breeds" which includes Dobermans. I remind them they can speak to PETS but Pearl is not a pet, she is a service dog.

    I do not vest her in public and I refuse to participate in any of the "documenting" schemes. There is no vesting requirement or registry requirement. I am entitled by law to the use of a service animal. I can be asked 2 questions regarding my service animal and they are the only ones I'll answer:

    1. Are you disabled
    2. Is this a service animal.

    Then I hand them a copy of the regs and ask if I need to call a news crew. Funny, no one reports being harrassed for their service animal in those establishments after than.
    My blog: Living Life at Butt Level

    Ignite Phoenix #9 - Wheelchairs and Wisdom: Living Life at Butt Level

    "I will not die an unlived life. I will not live in fear of falling or catching fire. I choose to inhabit my days, to allow my living to open me, to make me less afraid, more accessible, to loosen my heart until it becomes a wing, a torch, a promise. I choose to risk my significance; to live so that which comes to me as seed goes to the next as blossom and that which comes to me as blossom, goes on as fruit."

    Dawna Markova Author of Open Mind.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JenJen View Post
    I have owner-trained Dobermans for my service divas. I know of others (Fred most famously, but he died a few years back) who use Dobies. I've been questioned because my HOA does not allow "bully breeds" which includes Dobermans. I remind them they can speak to PETS but Pearl is not a pet, she is a service dog.

    I do not vest her in public and I refuse to participate in any of the "documenting" schemes. There is no vesting requirement or registry requirement. I am entitled by law to the use of a service animal. I can be asked 2 questions regarding my service animal and they are the only ones I'll answer:

    1. Are you disabled
    2. Is this a service animal.

    Then I hand them a copy of the regs and ask if I need to call a news crew. Funny, no one reports being harrassed for their service animal in those establishments after than.
    YES beautiful explanation and responses, you go girl!

Similar Threads

  1. service dogs and car service
    By daveh0 in forum Recreation, Sports, Travel, & Hobbies
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-28-2011, 12:21 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-13-2011, 06:14 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-07-2002, 06:52 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-08-2001, 06:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •