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Thread: Service Dog Quesion

  1. #71
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    Betheny, if your think about it, Dingo really IS a service dog in your case. Think about what he does for you ... done deal in this specific case. Not a case of claiming a pet is a service dog, but in calling your service dog a pet all these years.
    T7-8 since Feb 2005

  2. #72
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjean423 View Post
    Betheny, if your think about it, Dingo really IS a service dog in your case. Think about what he does for you ... done deal in this specific case. Not a case of claiming a pet is a service dog, but in calling your service dog a pet all these years.
    Unless dingo has been specifically trained in advanced obedience and public access work as well as a minimum of two service tasks to specifically mitigate bethenys disability this is not true. That's not to say he could not be a service dog or an emotional support animal. From what I currently know about Bethany all that would be needed for him to be an ESA is the letter from a physician. I do not know if dingo has received obedience, public access, and task training. If he has not, he could begin training and be a sdit but there is no way to know for sure if a dog will have what it takes to be a SD without trying. I recently had to wash out my dog Emma from service dog training as she does not have what it takes. Due to the difficulty of training a service dog and the way my disability has progressed I am not going to start a new with owner training but am working with an organization.

    Bethany if you are interested in training dingo to be a SD let me know and I can suggest some resources and look to see if I know of a reputable place to receive assistance and support with the training locally. There are organizations that assist in owner training, as well as clubs or groups of owner trainers that meet up to train together. It's a long process but if all goes well the end result is amazing.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    The link provided by Rob is unfortunately somewhat out of date due to the ADA reformation act of 2008 which addressed the definition of service dog among other things. This law was implemented in March 2011. Here is the current brief again
    http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

    A quick source to find any service dog law including state and federal as well as case law for many countries is service dog central www.servicedogcentral.org
    Thanks Lin..are there certain guidelines as to tasks that must be able to be performed? I read that somewhere in this thread? I am training my dog now and want him to learn certain tasks..to pick up phone if I fall to pull me if I get over tired, and to most importantly alarm bark if I fall or get stuck (in pool-which I have with broken lift lol or in any situation where I am immobilized.

    Are there any videos that can help with self training?
    "The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.” ~Carlos Castaneda

  4. #74
    http://www.buygentleleader.com/View....er/description

    Lin..is this good for training? MY new trainer says I should get this? My dog is a German Shepherd
    "The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.” ~Carlos Castaneda

  5. #75
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    The guidelines are that the dog must perform a minimum of two (some say 3, but taking the law literally 2 would count) tasks that specifically mitigate your disability. So what the tasks are depends on YOU. This is mostly important when it comes to how public access works which is the pwd has the access and not the dog. So a service dog when accompanied by anyone other than their disabled handler is not allowed access where pets are not allowed. For a real life example, a spouse could not go grocery shopping with their partners dog. Or a dog trained in mobility assistance and opening doors could not be considered a service dog when with an individual who has no problem opening doors. There are no maximum for what a dog can be taught, so a psychiatric sd could open doors too, but the tasks qualifying them as a SD have to be specific to mitigate their handlers disability.

    I've seen videos on YouTube for tasks, let me see if I can find the urls. In my experience and the places I've worked with clicker training is the easiest to teach service tasks. There is a book and dvd set called teamwork that helps owner trainers, teamwork I addresses obedience and basic training while teamwork II addresses service tasks. I have a list of some books too that I'll try to find! You also might be interested in joining the forums at service dog central and can ask any questions relating to service dogs.

    Edited to add: I personally am not a fan of the gentle leader head collar, I've seen dogs injure their necks struggling against them. As far as training collars go I prefer a properly used prong. Many trainers are afraid of prongs or do not know how to use them. Any training device is only a tool in the hands of the trainer, I'd rather a dog walk calmly on a prong then strangle themselves in a basic flat collar or injure their neck being yanked by a head collar.

    If you use a gentle leader or halti its important to get the dog used to it slowly so they do not fight against it. Also you cannot ever give a leash tug or pop as a correction because the force will turn the head sharply. That said, some dogs do very well and stop pulling with them. They are frequently used with service dogs since they give leverage which helps those with physical impairments have control of the dog if needed.

    I also work with GSDs, I have two currently with my sd Tessa and my recent wash out Emma. I'm Lin over at www.germanshepherds.com too if you're ever there
    Last edited by ~Lin; 10-24-2012 at 08:19 PM.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    The guidelines are that the dog must perform a minimum of two (some say 3, but taking the law literally 2 would count) tasks that specifically mitigate your disability. So what the tasks are depends on YOU. This is mostly important when it comes to how public access works which is the pwd has the access and not the dog. So a service dog when accompanied by anyone other than their disabled handler is not allowed access where pets are not allowed. For a real life example, a spouse could not go grocery shopping with their partners dog. Or a dog trained in mobility assistance and opening doors could not be considered a service dog when with an individual who has no problem opening doors. There are no maximum for what a dog can be taught, so a psychiatric sd could open doors too, but the tasks qualifying them as a SD have to be specific to mitigate their handlers disability.

    I've seen videos on YouTube for tasks, let me see if I can find the urls. In my experience and the places I've worked with clicker training is the easiest to teach service tasks. There is a book and dvd set called teamwork that helps owner trainers, teamwork I addresses obedience and basic training while teamwork II addresses service tasks. I have a list of some books too that I'll try to find! You also might be interested in joining the forums at service dog central and can ask any questions relating to service dogs.

    Edited to add: I personally am not a fan of the gentle leader head collar, I've seen dogs injure their necks struggling against them. As far as training collars go I prefer a properly used prong. Many trainers are afraid of prongs or do not know how to use them. Any training device is only a tool in the hands of the trainer, I'd rather a dog walk calmly on a prong then strangle themselves in a basic flat collar or injure their neck being yanked by a head collar.

    If you use a gentle leader or halti its important to get the dog used to it slowly so they do not fight against it. Also you cannot ever give a leash tug or pop as a correction because the force will turn the head sharply. That said, some dogs do very well and stop pulling with them. They are frequently used with service dogs since they give leverage which helps those with physical impairments have control of the dog if needed.

    I also work with GSDs, I have two currently with my sd Tessa and my recent wash out Emma. I'm Lin over at www.germanshepherds.com too if you're ever there

    WOW..thank you so much for the great feedback. I am a little confused as to what to do..my first trainer said use prong..and he is used to it ..ONLY when on walks which would prevent him from eating cats and pulling me out of chair.while still in training..BUT the NEW trainer IS all MAJOR anti the prong and wants to use the "gentle leader" which I would have to purchase. I just ordered a week ago a harness..from a service dog store..that a leash could be attached to and it has a handle I could grab too if I wanted a pull? It has a chest pad so the weight is distributed. sigh...I need to stick with one method and while I don't think he will need prong..probably doesn't now..as he is already pretty obedient...should I use the leader and the harness at same time?
    "The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.” ~Carlos Castaneda

  7. #77
    I'm not sure you can teach an old dog new tricks. Although Dingo keeps surprising me w/ his ninja skills. He got off the line and went across the road!


    He needs a Ninja Dog Certificate. Also Comfort When Crying.

    When I finally get out of here dog training will be part of my equation. Jill is currently fostering 5 pups, mama dog, 3 kittens plus her own herd. Her talent is being misused but she has to make a living. Somehow Dingo and I belong in that puzzle...

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by sjean423 View Post
    Betheny, if your think about it, Dingo really IS a service dog in your case. Think about what he does for you ... done deal in this specific case. Not a case of claiming a pet is a service dog, but in calling your service dog a pet all these years.
    That is what I was trying to say.
    If you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.


    Sometimes it is easier to widen doors than it is to open minds.

  9. #79
    Makes sense. We were at the Elbow Room downtown. I was already annoyed because they claimed they were accessible, yet there was a step at the entrance. They allow all dogs outside, but it was February....
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    The ADA is about civil rights, and no state can take away civil rights that are granted federally. It's just that the statement federal law always trumps state law isn't true.

    There is a loophole so to speak in that all accommodation boils down to reasonable accommodation. This is why 2 SDs would usually be considered unreasonable. Modifying a historical building could be deemed unreasonable. Putting a ramp in front of a building flush with the Street could be deemed unreasonable, etc.

    The fire Marshall wouldn't have anything to do with it, but the business may have been using that as an excuse. In Indiana The law states that service dogs in training have t he same public access as service dogs when accompanied by a service dog trainer. However service dog trainer is not defined, and so would be up to the discretion of the judge. This could mean trainers from organizations, it could include owner trainers. When I was training I called places in advance and simply asked a manager if they allowed service dogs in training. I was never refused access, and when I showed up I had Tessa wearing patches identifying her as a service dog in training. Ironically once she was fully trained I started running into instances where people tried to deny us access, but so far none yet that wasn't taken care of by talking with the employee or a manager.
    If you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.


    Sometimes it is easier to widen doors than it is to open minds.

  10. #80
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    I understand what you guys are trying to say, but it's wrong. There is no such thing as a specific case where the advanced training isn't required of a service dog. If the housing is a concern, like I said all would be needed for her case is a Dr putting it into her records and writing a letter for the landlord for dingo to be an emotional support animal. There is no required training for that, but there IS for service dogs. And it doesn't matter how well behaved the dog is, they are not a service dog without the training and passing one off as such is wrong and illegal. In many states there are criminal laws where passing off a non service dog as one is charged as fraud. In all states someone passing off a non sd as one is open to lawsuits from businesses and landlords. Even legitimate handlers are at risk of a lawsuit, however a legitimate handler has nothing to fear about going to court. In court you have to prove that you meet the legal definition of disability and that your dog meets service dog definitions and requirements. This is where extensive training logs from the owner trainer are important, as well as demonstrating the dogs training such as tasks for the judge.

    Betheny, how old is dingo? It is harder the older the dog is because the best chance for success is with a dog that has been raised from the beginning to be a SD but not impossible. Another concern of an older dog is shortened working span in comparison to the length of time training. Training typically takes 2 years when you start with a puppy, but can be completed between one and two years for an adult dog. Tessa was nearly 4 when I started her service dog training, but I had done a lot of obedience work with her prior.

    Sherocksandsherolls, I personally would stick with the prong if that's what you've already used. A harness, especially one made for pulling, makes it easier to pull so I would not clip the lead to the harness until your dog can heel dependably offlead. This isn't a requirement, so otherwise I would keep the lead attached to whatever collar you use. If your dog is going to be pulling you then you can hold on to the handle on the harness or buy a longer clip on pulling handle. I use a hands free lead that I wear over my shoulder and clips to Tessa's collar and hold the harness for pulling or clip a loop to the harness to hold on to. How old is your dog? Have you gotten hip and elbow xrays yet?
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

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