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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tooley View Post
    toto - I remember seeing pictures of your extreme box in the seat of your car, and I think you have a video of you loading it, maybe you could share it? After all - seeing is believing.

    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFh--ND0mX8

    I put in the chair into the car at 3:15

  2. #12
    I put my chair in the passanger seat also but I set mine in the seat just like you were going to set in it and the wheels go in the back seat.
    SCI Birthday: April 25, 1993
    T4,5,6 Incomplete
    Chair: TiLite TR3

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by stumpybushman View Post
    I put my chair in the passanger seat also but I set mine in the seat just like you were going to set in it and the wheels go in the back seat.

    Yea, but that way you need the front and the back of the car for your wheelchair, this way you only need a seat.

  4. #14
    Senior Member brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    supporting the back of the chair by sticking a large rear wheel beneath it greatly over-simplifies the concept.
    Over-simplifies? I'd say invalidates.

  5. #15
    Senior Member DaleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian View Post
    Over-simplifies? I'd say invalidates.
    If we're going for a strictly literal interpretation of what a cantilevered wheelchair frame is wouldnt we only consider the frame geometry? I ask because it seems to me as the term doesn't imply the entire wheelchair is one big cantilever, when being strictly literal, really just the frame design.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member brian's Avatar
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    What's your definition of a "cantilevered wheelchair frame"?

    Cantilever is when a beam is anchored on one end allowing it to overhang or suspend on the other without support. On a wheelchair, one end is supported by the casters while the other end is supported by the rear wheels. Both ends of the frame are supported and, therefore, no cantilever.

    This would be a cantilevered frame:
    Attachment 44412
    See how the back of the frame has no support?


    This is not:
    Attachment 44413


    See how it has support/anchor points on BOTH ends of the frame?
    Now if we're talking about the frame only, it's still not cantilevered because if you take the rear wheels off, the back will fall to the ground and, as a result, be supported by the ground. Still two anchor points on both ends of the frame:

    Attachment 44414


    What am I missing? Why am I confused? Is 'cantilevered' a word that the chair companies used or was it a started by a user who doesn't understand? Or is it me?
    Last edited by brian; 04-06-2012 at 11:41 AM.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by brian View Post
    Does anyone know how or why the word "cantilever" ever became used to describe L-frame chairs? It's a pet peeve of mine.
    I call them L frames because that is what they are, looks like a L but in different position.
    The backrest if is not welded to the frame is not part of it imo.

  8. #18
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by totoL1 View Post
    I call them L frames because that is what they are, looks like a L but in different position.
    The backrest if is not welded to the frame is not part of it imo.
    i agree L frame would've made more sense, but "L Frame" was already taken by Oakley, so they couldn't use it?

  9. #19
    Senior Member DaleB's Avatar
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    I'm not sure, I was a philosophy, sociology, and linguistics student. Never took any engineering courses.

    I've never heard the term 'cantilever' in reference to anything other than the frame, is all. Your, quite literal and I'm sure 100% technically accurate, explanation includes the wheels.

    For the sake of clarity, using your explanation, it seems to me the term refers to removal of the lower frame bar (ignoring everything but the frame...i.e. backrest, wheels, forks, etc) and the effect that had on the frame design, going from a closed box to an open L, with the only other frame support for the top frame rail coming from the vertical front frame rail.

    Sure, add the rear wheels and you're back to a box.

    Fwiw, even is we include the wheels, a cantilever, according to the limits of my knowledge...which is your post and Wikipedia...can, in fact, be supported by 2 vertical sections (like the front and rear wheels) as long as there is some overhang at one end. Like a diving board.

    Does this make any type of fully assembled wheelchair with the rear axle located anywhere forward of the rear end of the seat tubes a type of cantilevered design?





    Quote Originally Posted by brian View Post
    What's your definition of a "cantilevered wheelchair frame"?

    Cantilever is when a beam is anchored on one end allowing it to overhang or suspend on the other without support. On a wheelchair, one end is supported by the casters while the other end is supported by the rear wheels. Both ends of the frame are supported and, therefore, no cantilever.

    This would be a cantilevered frame:
    Attachment 44412
    See how the back of the frame has no support?


    This is not:
    Attachment 44413


    See how it has support/anchor points on BOTH ends of the frame?
    Now if we're talking about the frame only, it's still not cantilevered because if you take the rear wheels off, the back will fall to the ground and, as a result, be supported by the ground. Still two anchor points on both ends of the frame:

    Attachment 44414


    What am I missing? Why am I confused? Is 'cantilevered' a word that the chair companies used or was it a started by a user who doesn't understand? Or is it me?
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  10. #20
    Senior Member brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jschism View Post
    i agree L frame would've made more sense, but "L Frame" was already taken by Oakley, so they couldn't use it?
    Except that wheelchair manufacturers wouldn't be using "L-Frame" as a model or brand name, only as a descriptor. You can't sue over that (or, at least, it would be very difficult).


    Quote Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
    I've never heard the term 'cantilever' in reference to anything other than the frame, is all. Your, quite literal and I'm sure 100% technically accurate, explanation includes the wheels.
    BUT as my final (and masterful) illustration indicates, take away the wheels and the frame would collapse. At that point the frame is again being supported by two points on either end. It becomes something different.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
    a cantilever can, in fact, be supported by 2 vertical sections as long as there is some overhang at one end.

    Does this make any type of fully assembled wheelchair with the rear axle located anywhere forward of the rear end of the seat tubes a type of cantilevered design?
    Yeesh. Maybe. But that, as you suggest, would mean that a whole host of other chairs would be considered cantilevered and would not be specific to this L shaped design. So if you use that to plug the hole in this argument, it opens up 5 others.

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