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Thread: The opposing view to Fetal OEG Transplants that we should all be prepared for

  1. #1

    The opposing view to Fetal OEG Transplants that we should all be prepared for

    http://www.operationsaveamerica.org/...l-research.htm

    I guess the best thing to do when we are exposed to these types of views is to just remain calm and realize that everybody is entitled to their opinions. I post this with Leo's permission to illustrate what he has gone through.

    "Life is about how you
    respond to not only the
    challenges you're dealt but
    the challenges you seek...If
    you have no goals, no
    mountains to climb, your
    soul dies".~Liz Fordred

    [This message was edited by Curtis on 09-14-03 at 08:59 PM.]

  2. #2

    Thanks Curtis

    Here's the full article.
    This is so twisted.
    Â*
    Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Should We or Shouldn't We?
    Â*
    August 1, 2003
    Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Should We or Shouldn't We?

    Our own Stephen Mashburn (webmaster for Operation Save America) eloquently answers this question and takes on all comers, Christopher Reeve et. al., with a logic and wisdom that comes only from God. We have been blessed with Stephen's ministry and writing for the past several years. You will love this word from a man who knows.
    - Flip

    "The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, 'Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.'" (Genesis 2:8-9, 15-17)

    Every once in a while a news story will just push all the wrong buttons and I must address it at length. On July 29 the Yankton News in Yankton, SD published a story about a man that has been a quadriplegic for 27 years and his plans to go to China for promising treatment according to the article. The man's name is Leo Hallan who according to the article is a Christian. Hallan explains, "Dr. (Hongyun) Huang from (Beijing,) China has been doing work with cells called OEG or olfactory ensheathing glia. They come from the area of the nose that meets the brain."

    http://www.yankton.net/stories/07290...30729024.shtml

    This OEG work involves injecting 500,000 of these cells above a spinal cord injury and 500,000 cells directly below the spinal cord injury site. The research is going on in 3 countries and in Phase I of Huang's work with over 350 patients, this article credits Hallan as saying Huang's patients "regain two to three levels of function and three to five levels of sensation within weeks of the surgery." As Phase II begins Hallan plans to go China.

    "At two levels of function I am looking at total use of my arms and hands," Hallan said. So what's the problem? Isn't this wonderful news for millions of people suffering from paralysis after spinal cord injury?

    It would be good news except the source of these OEG cells in China is innocent baby boys and girls murdered in their mother's womb without a choice in the matter. This is cannibalizing other persons created by God in His image that wicked men and women have ruthlessly murdered and calling any perceived benefit good. "The human heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; Who can know it?" God records in Jeremiah 17:9. Therefore it should surprise no true Christian that many voices in the land are rationalizing this use of cells obtained from babies murdered by abortion as a good thing.

    In fact the Great Deceiver has even convinced Leo Hallan that this great evil derived from the wrong tree is justified and good. Let's examine Leo Hallan's complete statement and then discern which tree he is partaking of - the tree of Life or the tree of Knowledge. Leo said,

    "I'm a Christian and I don't feel like I am bending my Christian values. People kill each other every day, and every day body parts from murdered people are donated in organ transplants. I wish I could go to China and stop abortion, but I can't. I don't believe God made junk, so it is an issue of throw it away or use it until we can stop it."

    First of all, we as Christians are commanded to walk by faith, not feelings. Feelings are subject to change depending on circumstances and emotions that stem from our fallen soul. In Romans 8 we are warned that the carnal mind is hostile toward God and it is impossible for the carnal mind to be subject to God's Law. Only those whose minds are controlled by the Holy Spirit can please God.

    Second, Hallan is right, People do kill each other every day and body parts and organs are donated and used in transplants. Every lie of the devil however must have an element of truth to it in order to deceive most. The critical fact Leo Hallan ignores is that these transplants all take place with the prior consent of the deceased. Indeed it is considered a war crime by international law to use the body of an executed prisoner involuntarily. The nation of Communist China faces international criticism and condemnation for this practice.

    Therefore for Leo Hallan to compare the body parts of innocent baby boys and girls brutally murdered in their mothers' wombs to convicted criminals or murder victims who have given their completely voluntary prior consent is horrific.

    These children were never asked for their consent. Every single one fights to the bitter end in a futile attempt to escape the instrument of their execution. In China, the mothers are often not even given a choice to let their baby live but are dragged into an office and forced to undergo an abortion to murder the child.

    The horrific error is that by choosing to personally gain by these babies' murdered bodies, Leo Hallan is putting his imprimatur on their murder. Worse than his own seal of approval, Leo Hallan is invoking the Name of the Lord Jesus with it. "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)

    Finally Leo Hallan tries to justify his course action by saying he doesn't believe God makes junk and that he claims that he wishes he could go to China and make them stop abortion but he can't. I say in a pig's eye you do Leo! That is total bunk! By his own mouth Leo Hallan acknowledges that abortion is murder and wrong. His sinful worldly mindset is revealed by his last words, "It's an issue of throw it away or use it until we can stop it."

    How about giving these innocent baby boys and girls a decent Christian burial Leo Hallan? Has that tiny act of compassion even entered your mind? "...The kindest acts of the wicked are cruel." (Proverbs 12:10) Doctors, scientists and corporations are stumbling over themselves trying to be the first to succeed at using any type of stem cells out of pure financial greed. Just look at the pharmaceutical industry and the skyrocketing price of medicines today if you doubt this. An industry consumed with greed, a part of Babylon, is no more going to stop killing children than people like Leo Hallan if they can profit in some way personally. Later in the article Hallan laments having to travel to 1 of 3 foreign countries and actually states:

    "I would be lying if I said I wasn't doing this for selfish reasons. The fact of the matter is 50 percent of my reason is to bring public attention to the fact that I have to travel overseas to get this operation. There are three other countries working on this research, and where is the U.S.? We need to put public pressure on the American foundations, research facilities and government to get this going here."

    "Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, 'The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously'? But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: 'God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.'" (James 4:4-6)
    Some out there might wonder where I get off condemning Leo Hallan for his course of action. Some will say, 'That man has spent 27 years in a wheelchair and bed unable to use his arms or hands. Why don't you try walking in his shoes before you spout your judgmental condemnation?'

    I'm so glad you asked! Come next Tuesday, August 5, 2003 I will have lived 35 years as a quadriplegic from a spinal cord injury. Out of those years, I've lived 26 years as a born again, baptized biblical Christian. After my second year of knowing Christ I wanted all God could give me in order to live for and serve Him. Not trusting man, even in my own church back then, I begged God for the power of His Spirit. All I knew about the gifts of the Holy Spirit was that a cult known as "The Way International" taught their followers to babble in tongues for money and that this cult was from the pit of Hell. Days and hours of seeking God resulted in the fulfillment of Luke 11:13 one night at home alone and I was delivered from much and empowered. Furthermore God began to use me in ways that stunned me.

    I've spent my Christian walk attending a charismatic church though my ministry has taken me to all types of churches. You name the healing Scriptures and teachings and I've heard them. It is God's will to heal. Still, life can be tough when you're confined to a chair or a bed and completely dependent on others for most needs. Such a life can also be an incredible blessing as incredulous as that may sound. The key is in serving the Lord Jesus with what you already have. Why should the Lord Jesus give me more if I refuse to allow Him to completely use what I have by His grace alone now?

    In 1982 the Lord enabled me to travel to a 3-day conference at Christ For the Nations Bible Institute in Dallas, TX. I knew the Lord had something to impart to me and it was not limited to just physical healing. The Lord gave me that test in prayer when I asked His permission to go before I even had transportation, money or a care attendant. Each day was filled with glorious worship, witnessing a blind man receive his sight and many other miracles along with prophetic words but nothing for me.

    The last night came and I waited in a prayer line where about 150 Christians prayed, mostly on their faces. It was near impossible to sit up and my friend & attendant could not stand for quite a while. The Holy Spirit was present mightily. The crowd suddenly parted after nearly 2 hours and I was allowed to come to the front. The man of God took my hand, prayed quietly and gave me this word. "My son, I see you in what appears to be a prison to you. Just as I saw Joseph in his prison, I see you in yours and just as I released My gifts within Joseph while he was yet in his prison, so shall I release My gifts in you while you are in your prison. Just as I raised Joseph from his prison, I will also raise you up from yours at the appointed time." (See the story of Joseph, in Genesis chapters 37; 39-50.)

    I have no idea when that time of healing is. I believe it will be before our Lord's return to eliminate any confusion. As for when, Jesus Himself said even He did not know the day or hour of His return but that only His Father in heaven knew having put the times and seasons in His hand. I do know that upon my return to Wichita that year, I was immediately hospitalized with pneumonia in August and 4 days later scheduled for surgery. On the fifth day I awoke to the doctors telling me with amazement that my lungs were completely clear of pneumonia or congestion - the X-rays on the screen proving it.

    Shortly afterward I noticed various gifts in operation when the Spirit willed. I was appointed to lead a ministry to a boy's detention center where I prayed for healing of certain individuals. I prayed for a 17-year old boy in a full leg cast scheduled for total knee reconstruction the next day. Having his name and room number, I tried to visit him prior to surgery but a preliminary scope revealed nothing was wrong with his knee at all. He had already been dismissed and was outside at the detention center playing football - ironically the same way he had badly injured his knee. I've seen many miracles on the streets during ministry and through prayer. I once wondered why God healed others but had not completely healed me but the thought quickly passed and never returned.

    I have suffered greatly at times but I always hold to Romans 8:18, "I reckon the sufferings of this present time are not even worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us." Many times God took me into the hospital all the way to scheduled surgery then healed me. It began to make some surgeons very angry but I testified to many people of Jesus and His saving Gospel and healing power. Since 1984, I've enjoyed unprecedented good health only spending a week in 1994 in the hospital for a badly broken leg. I believe that God heals miraculously and I believe that He uses medicine too. He is God - I am not.

    if science finds a way to cure paralysis that does not involve using the bodies of other murdered humans without their consent, I would endorse it if one, after seeking God, one truly looked at the risks and counted the costs. As for me personally, my trust is in Jesus who has given me multiple witnesses to the word of knowledge I received in August of 1982 through sources that no one else could possibly know. Healed or not, I will serve the Lord. It took Leo Hallan's article to provoke me to share this with the world beyond our small church and a few close friends

    I've walked in Leo Hallan's shoes. I challenge Leo Hallan to try walking in Jesus' shoes. You can also as "Hallan said he would be happy to discuss the trip, the research or the fund-raising with anyone who has questions. He can be reached at lhallan@iw.net" in the article. Every chance I get, I go to the streets to preach Christ, pray for mothers and the sidewalk counselors trying to reach them, save babies' lives and most importantly to publicly testify to the community that abortion is murder and wrong. God desires that we repent but He will judge nations for this terrible holocaust and He will start at His Church.

    May the Leo Hallans and the Church rise up from their self-induced spiritual paralysis and silence while it is yet day.

    Andre Crouch summed up suffering and God's sovereign ways in a song well:

    "I've had many tears and sorrows. I've had questions for tomorrow. There've been times I didn't know right from wrong! But in every situation, God gave blessed consolation that my trials come to only make me strong. Through it all; through it all; I've learned to trust in Jesus. I've learned to trust in God. Through it all; through it all; I've learned to depend upon God's word."

  3. #3
    Senior Member foster's Avatar
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    Leo after I read this I felt so bad for you. Please keep your head up because we believe in you. Then I just got pissed off. One group telling another group had to live. These people should move to the middle east. Ahh this just drives me nuts.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
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    "Therefore for Leo Hallan to compare the body parts of innocent baby boys and girls brutally murdered in their mothers' wombs to convicted criminals or murder victims who have given their completely voluntary prior consent is horrific."

    Completely voluntary? This guy lives in Kansas from the sounds of it and they tend to have laws that have nothing to do with the other 49, science or even reality on occassion. In the rest of the US parents may donate the bodies or specific organs of their dead or brain dead children and organ donors tend to need a consenting relative or spouse above their own completely voluntary act of signing an organ donor card to complete their intended deed.

    And since lately people like Stephen Mashburn have been hollering like stuck pigs when "christians" are persecuted for pushing their brand of religion in Russia why does he think a Buddist, Muslim or, yes, even an atheist by choice would bury the remains of a fetus, wanted or not, in a christian burial ceremony?

    Walk in Christ's shoes? I hope Leo does. That's the entire point here--to walk. If he wanted a cure for pnuemonia he'd head for a pharmacy.

    Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."

  5. #5
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    Who put this gentleman in charge of Judgement Day? I guess I'm horrific because I only had 4 children and if you count an egg a month for 35 years, I'm most certainly behind!!

  6. #6
    well I've posted a few things here that have hopefully conveyed the fact that I'm a Christian, and after reading this article, I do understand & mostly agree with the point of discussion... but at the same time I have to seriously question it, because we can't define *every* little way the Lord works. Sure, I'm anti-abortion, but in one sense, murder isn't the only way to obtain these OEG cells (just bear with me & don't argue this abortion = murder thing... not the point of this thread, just my opinion).

    The Bible tells us that "in all things God works for the good of those who love him" (Romans 8:28); this is my discrepancy with the whole issue of stem cell stuff. God CAN use this for good. He DOES love us even more than we love him. Why couldn't He use this for the good of His people? His followers make up "the body of Christ" -- I know several Christian doctors who use their God-given knowledge of medicine to help others. They're part of the body, and God uses them for good.

    I'm somewhat neutral about the stem cell issue, but I'm not fully against it... & that's not simply because of my SCI.

    just my $0.02 on the matter.

    ~ scott

    ______________
    'everything will be okay in the end; if it's not okay, it's not the end.'

  7. #7
    addendum:
    It would be good news except the source of these OEG cells in China is innocent baby boys and girls murdered in their mother's womb without a choice in the matter. This is cannibalizing other persons created by God in His image that wicked men and women have ruthlessly murdered and calling any perceived benefit good. "The human heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; Who can know it?" God records in Jeremiah 17:9. Therefore it should surprise no true Christian that many voices in the land are rationalizing this use of cells obtained from babies murdered by abortion as a good thing.
    yes, the human heart, Biblically speaking, is wicked. This last sentence bugs me though, because I'm personally not rationalizing the issue. I'm formulating my opinion from what I understand about God. Does God approve of abortion? His Word tells us blatently no. Going back to my previous post, can God still make something good out of a bad situation? Yes.

    I hope this doesn't offend anyone, I'm just thinking out loud.

    ______________
    'everything will be okay in the end; if it's not okay, it's not the end.'

  8. #8
    Sadly, sounds like this guy has given up. I would be willing to bet that he doesn't believe in any type of cure no matter the source.

    It will be real interesting to see how some of these people react in 10 years or so when these types of therapies are perfected, and people really start standing up and walking. I would bet there will be only a small minority who are sincere in their beliefs.

  9. #9
    I'm glad you guys brought this article to the forum for discussion. I stumbled accross it yesterday and the thing I really don't understand is this - Regardless of where one stands on abortion, why let a fetus/baby go to waste once it has been aborted if good can come out of it? Even if one disagrees with the act of abortion, can't they see that good can come out of it? I feel like this 'Operation Save America' is fighting the wrong battle by attacking Leo.

  10. #10
    Leo,

    You seem to have a strong character, so I'm sure you wont let this rubbish get you down. For what it's worth, you are supported by far more people (and far more rational people) than the ignoramus who penned that article.

    His style of thinking mirrors the rediculous ideology of the middle ages, the inquisition, and the hundreds of wars fought in the name of religion.

    What really gets my goat is his reference to giving them 'decent Christian burials'. According to a very quick internet search, there is less than 0.3% of the Chinese population that could be considered Christian...

    Arghhh !!! I had better stop before I say too much.

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