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Thread: Seasteading & Clinical Trials?

  1. #11
    Billionairs Colin, Billionairs. If they could just support Wise and his research/clinical trials rather than floating hairbrained ideas about oilrig style tax havens we'd all be better off.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by malthouse View Post
    Regulations came about not for fun. They came about because people and communities would get exploited or injured by greedy and selfish wealthy individuals and or corporations!! Stop talking about crap bullshit kooky ideas about oil platform type Islands and concentrate on real issues. IF, and I mean IF a super wealthy person wants to waste good money on a stupid idea like that, then that's a reflection on them, not the laws in any certain country they choose to winge about..

    PS. If any of you think that this would be a good idea I challenge you to go and work out there and see how well you would be treated.

    These ideas are only ever floated by super rich people who resent having to pay their fare share of tax!!
    I think you are quite right about the kooky ideas. However, conventional is not always right, and Paolo's point about risk is totally valid; the question is how calculated that risk? Patients are not all fools, and have the right to make a choice.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by malthouse View Post
    Billionairs Colin, Billionairs. If they could just support Wise and his research/clinical trials rather than floating hairbrained ideas about oilrig style tax havens we'd all be better off.
    I agree completely.
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    Could biotechs of the future look to offshore pre-clinical and clinical studies like this?



    It might be impossibly radical but hey, worth a discussion on a Sunday afternoon
    Pelican and Paolo,

    As I was leaving NYU in the mid-1990's, I gave some thought to creating a clinical trial network using ships. The ships would be equipped to do surgery and rehabilitaiton. They would stop at ports around the world and provide therapy and rehabilition, as well as followup examinations. The goal would not be to bypass regulatory agencies but rather to save money by not having to duplicate clinical trial facilities.

    I don't know what percentage of the world's population can be reached by ship but it must be at least half or more of people with spinal cord injury in the world. I even thought of having trucks on the ship that would have built in operating rooms that can be driven inland. England, Italy, and most of Europe are readily accessible. Each ship would have a helicopter to take teams of doctors inland. The East and West Coast of the United States, coastal areas of China, India, Central and South America, Australia, Japan, Taiwan, and Middle East should be accessible.

    Probably two ships would be sufficient. I went to the length of estimating the expenses of buying two old cruise ships and the cost of refitting and running them. It is cheaper than buying, building, and staffing a hospital. Just an idea.

    Wise.

  5. #15
    Moderator jody's Avatar
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    wow, very interesting posts.

  6. #16
    Malthouse,
    Which greedy corporation are you referring to? The one that made the computer that you are typing on or the one that made it possible for you to fly anywhere around the world for a few hundred bucks?
    Nobody is going to produce the cure for you just because you need it; they would need much more of an incentive than that.
    Regulations might have come about with good intentions, but at this point in time what they do is prevent many good ideas to be realized and slow down progress.
    Regulations are here because some government bureaucrats think that you’re stupid and can’t make your own decisions, and better off wasting your life just sitting in your wheelchair.

  7. #17
    Dimitriy,

    We could play ping pong with this till the cow's come home but I feel we may bore everyone. I did not level any accusations at any corporation per se, I was just generalising about why we need a regulatory environment.

    I get as pissed off with red tape as the next person but I feel confident BP may have treated the Gulf of Mexico with a tad more respect if they were as free wheeling as Union Carbide....

    And Wise, If I were a billionair, I would be more then happy to finance your idea.

  8. #18
    Not! If they were NOT as free wheeling as Union Carbide....

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Pelican and Paolo,

    As I was leaving NYU in the mid-1990's, I gave some thought to creating a clinical trial network using ships. The ships would be equipped to do surgery and rehabilitaiton. They would stop at ports around the world and provide therapy and rehabilition, as well as followup examinations. The goal would not be to bypass regulatory agencies but rather to save money by not having to duplicate clinical trial facilities.

    I don't know what percentage of the world's population can be reached by ship but it must be at least half or more of people with spinal cord injury in the world. I even thought of having trucks on the ship that would have built in operating rooms that can be driven inland. England, Italy, and most of Europe are readily accessible. Each ship would have a helicopter to take teams of doctors inland. The East and West Coast of the United States, coastal areas of China, India, Central and South America, Australia, Japan, Taiwan, and Middle East should be accessible.

    Probably two ships would be sufficient. I went to the length of estimating the expenses of buying two old cruise ships and the cost of refitting and running them. It is cheaper than buying, building, and staffing a hospital. Just an idea.

    Wise.
    Very interesting. A good example of latersl thinking?
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  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Paolo,

    The SCI Community is larger than the AIDS community was in the 1980's when they convinced the FDA to create a new category of drug approval called "compassionate use". By the way, that category is still in existence and can be used for treatments of spinal cord injury, as long as you can show that there is no other therapy that works. The AIDS community, to my knowledge, never advocated circumventing the FDA. They worked with the FDA, NIH, and industry.

    Wise.
    Wise,

    referring to the document about the AIDS movment "Back to Basics"

    http://www.fastercures.org/documents...asicsFinal.pdf

    I would like to quote a few short parts:

    1) page 3
    "The successes of the HIV/AIDS advocacy movement were the result of a unique moment in time when the illness and death of thousands of people catalyzed action"
    2) page 9
    "Never before had this country seen thousands of sick people laying their bodies down on Wall Street, or chaining themselves to the fence of the FDA, or storming the NIH. ""You have to be able to inspire people at a level of civil disobbedience"" note Jim Curran, M.D., who was then the director of HIV/AIDS at the CDC."
    3) page 10
    "We were dying and we looked like we were dying - said Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT UP"
    ....
    "Kramer said that - what makes activism work is anger and fear, and I do not think I could work without that - "

    4) page 11
    In summary-- the real transition of the movement occoured between 1988 and 1990 with two specific demostrations:
    - October 1988 demonstartion at the FDA when more then 1000 activists partecipated
    - May 1990 demonstration at the NIH "Storm the NIH"

    So my point is that the AIDS movement had a power to negotiate with the NIH and FDA that the SCI community does not have.

    I am quite sure the SCI community will never be able to organize demostration with an impact compareble to the ones done by the AIDS movement, otherwise we would have already done it.

    In 7 years I have seen progress in SCI research, but it hasn't been fast enough to make me hope I can walk very soon, so I am ready to become radical in this fight for a cure, as being nice didn't work.

    May I ask you a question?
    Why Stem Cell Inc. went to Switzerland to do the clinical trial?

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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