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Thread: re-routing nerves

  1. #1

    re-routing nerves

    can any professional or in the know for cutting-edge research tell us if a spinal-injured person's sexual functions can be improved if not cured? Do any therapies show promise? Does sexual function go hand in hand with leg improvement? What is it going to take to restore sexual potency? Can't the berves be re-routed, anything? Does anyone have any clue to these questions?

  2. #2
    Bent,

    Sexual function have several components. For most people with spinal cord injury, at least two aspects of sexual function are achievable with a vibrator: erection and ejaculation. For some people, a vacuum pump may be necessary to initiate an erection (it applies suction to bring blood into the organ).

    If you are referring to sensation and orgasm, the route by which sensations of orgasms reach the brain are still not well understood. There is evidence that orgasms can be achieved in women even when the spinal cord has been transected, possibly through the vagus nerve.

    The sensory signal from the penis comes through a nerve called the dorsal penile nerve which connects to the pudendal nerve to the sacral roots S2-4. For more on the anatomy of the penus, see
    http://www.bumc.bu.edu/Departments/P...partmentID=371

    Dr. Zhang, an orthopedic surgeon in Shanghai, has been reconnecting the pudendal nerve to the ventral roots of the thoracic spinal cord above the injury site. He and others have reported that axons from the spinal cord grow from the ventral roots and into the peripheral nerve that is connected. However, this was intended to restore bladder and sphincter control and not necessarily sexual function. Also, this does not address the issue of sensory input.

    Rerouting sensory axons into the spinal cord is a more difficult proposition. If peripheral nerves from below the injury site are connected to spinal dorsal roots above the injury site, sensory axons will not grow into the spinal cord (presumably because the spinal cord contain inhibitors of axonal growth) except under special circumstances. One of these circumstances is the implantation of olfactory ensheathing glia into the dorsal root entry zone and this seems to facilitate sensory axonal ingrowth into the spinal cord and growth in the spinal cord. However, it is unclear whether the axons that grow in to the spinal cord will connect with the appropriate spinal neurons which in turn would connect to the correct brain neurons responsible for sensing sexual sensations.

    Wise.

    [This message was edited by Wise Young on 07-15-03 at 08:54 PM.]

  3. #3
    Dr. Young-
    So you've got motoneurons and sensory neurons involved in male sexual function? Since this is soo low on the spinal cord why isn't this expirimented more? Wouldn't this be an ideal first phase clinical trial with chronic injure dpersons? If you lack any sacral function, what's there to lose? In your opinion what would need to be done, on a cellular level, to retain sensation and ejaculation with someone with a high thoracic or upper lumbar spinal injury? How important does injury site proximity to sexual nerves play into recovery?

  4. #4
    Bent,

    There are some several groups of neurons called sacral parasympathetic nuclei in the S4-5 spinal cord that innervate and receive information from the penis. Damage to these neurons or the nerves to the penis compromises neurogenic erection and ejaculation.

    Damage to the lower sacral cord and its nerves is rarely the problem in spinal cord injury. Spinal cord injury usually damages the connections between the brain and the lower sacral cord. Many therapies may regenerate the spinal cord and these should restore sexual function. Some therapies, such as 4-aminopyridine, can already restore sexual function if the person already has some connections to the lower sacral area but the axons are demyelinated and not functioning.

    You ask what there is to lose, implying that clinicians should be free to experiment. Would you engage in any experimental procedure that may compromise your ability to recover sexual function. I did not think so.

    Let me give an example. The Brindley stimulator is very popular in Europe. This stimulator activates electrodes implanted on the sacral spinal roots. Electrical activation of the roots not only cause bladder contraction and sphincter relaxation, allowing micturation (the act of pissing), but such stimulation causes massive spasms and intense dysreflexia, as well as erection and ejaculation. To prevent the spasms, the procedure calls for cutting of the dorsal roots. Cutting of the sacral dorsal roots would of course eliminate sensory signals and therefore prevent normal sexual function in the future when regenerative therapies will be available. While the device works and improves quality of life of many hundreds of people in Europe, the device has been a economic failure in the United States. The company that sell the device has to close up in the U.S. Nobody in the U.S. is willing to undergo a procedure that may compromise the possibility of sexual recovery in the future.

    Regarding what to do to restore function in people with cervical and thoracic injuries, I think that best approach is to regenerate the spinal cord. Unfortunately, we don't know what central pathways carry sexual signals to and from the brain and spinal cord. I hope that the spinal cord knows and will regenerate those pathways.

    By the way, it should be possible activate orgasms by electrical activation of specific brain sites. I suspect that there are laboratories that working on this. In general, however, most people do not accept this as a potential solution.

    Wise.

  5. #5
    Banned Acid's Avatar
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    With function I don't know.


    But sensory, in weirdo "CR games", although I doubt it is bright
    to mention it here,
    I had various observations and thoughts.


    Been writing under ... Grey Magic ... recently about some weird
    track observations.

    There's been another one, that at the time I didn't feel alike mentioning.

    Goes down over the belly direction there.


    Also as I didn't like this much, I mean going over my belly, I shunted to lower spine, and scanned around for some spine segment feeling to have connection from there to there.


    Took a bit of fuzzing around, and then there seemed to go some connection,
    and I had the impression also goes up.

    Just this was very spinal right-sided feeling.

    And as not all with SCI have the right side as "little" damaged as CR,
    I didn't regard this so relevant on a wider scale.


    Somehow reminds me, though, of some magic systems spinal by-passer experiments.

    Seemed, that for example back upper frontal cortex can be gotten to extend its energies outwards down and (in)to skin of the back.

    However this neocortex sector in me did not seem to like something unnatural as this.


    IF one could use such, to extend it down there, into some spinal region,
    and then this particular spinal region, I mean from where it goes towards sexual organs,
    I have my doubts.

    But I do not wish to either judge this, nor potential uses if such should be possible.


    However I am quite sure, that brain sector might not like this.


    In by-passer experiments, with sensory cortex, more feeling above the spine,
    and not alike more sticking out to the back as that other neocortex region,
    I do not recall to have ever gotten it towards such by-passer settings.

    However there seemed settings options, even if there is just a fat hole in the spine, to translink from there through the hole,
    extending fields (in)to the other side.

    And also to differing regions, though I do not recall to have experimented for where all goes.

    So if for sexual organs would go, I have no data.


    If there however is not just a fat hole, but a highly damaged sector or several,
    with still hardware in there,
    I find it questionable,
    if to trans-channel such sort of fields from sensory cortex down,
    might not disturb something for serious in there.


    Might be recommendable, to be considerate of this,
    if ever alone or with a crafted sector tuner starting to go experimental for this.


    (But if someone should go experimental for this, anyway,
    I'd be curious about results and appreciate to be e-mailed about such.)



    Theoretically regarded, I assume there is a magic sequence, that however for me as MBD with handicapped parallel processings seems far too much.


    Goes alike, with a tuner, that this one figures out equivalents in own systems to the sectors above and below the SCI.

    And then logs out, and alone trains in settings, that ain't really belong into natural settings there and suck. And which might take quite a while to get internally established sufficiently.


    Which goes, working on regulating out the SCI equivalent sectors,
    generating alike fat blockers on both sides,
    and transconnect on just, whatever you call feinstoffliche energies,
    that these systems start to trans-phase
    not via spinal hardware
    but interlinking energetically direct with each other.

    Alike trans-bridging.


    When having gotten own systems to that,
    which might be accompanied by a load of systems protests in a non-SCI,
    one interphases on these systems settings with the person with SCI.


    If the person with SCI is getting some magical basics,
    as that it might be highly unwise due to systems security causes,
    to in this time start a bunch of activities,
    and better to just hold internally very still
    (unless for some systems security reasons it's high time to log out),
    then it should be possible to program systems towards parallel interlinks.

    If shifting slowly towards whatever you call higher feinstoffliche energetic translink densities,
    systems on both sides should start to transphase on these. Where simplified for a lot no hardware connections are needed.


    Same as not between two tuners playing around with energies of systems interphased.

    Us here tend to play around with interlinks over about 1.40m or so.

    Ain't got hardware running between us, either.

    So from that perspective, various that goes there, should theoretically also be gotten to systems internally in one person translink.

    I mean without hardware in between.


    Just I haven't played yet for sexual interlinks with someone on this stage yet.


    Anyway, for me as MBD, this seems way too much parallel.
    I am quite handicapped on parallel processing capacities.


    But these seem very important for regulating something as complex as this into systems of two.

    Just thought, I mention it.



    Quite apart from this,
    I mentioned already elsewhere a certain sexual position:

    While he is on his back, legs some apart, she lies on top with the legs more together.
    Holding the unerected penis between her thighs, o it is against the region with the clitoris.
    So that it rubs against there, while she sexually rhythmically moves her hips.

    This way the clitoris can get stimulated, irregardless if the penis is errected or not.

    (Also can be that eventually the penis gets an erection in this sexual activitiy.
    Even if not holding long, if going back to this, can also happen to have this effect multiply.)

  6. #6
    Banned Acid's Avatar
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    The topic rerouting nerves, has been reminding me: Friend of mine, who is a foreigner and does not speak German that well, mentioned something,
    if I understood that correctly,
    systems there somehow had a while managed a sideways by-passing a damaged spinal area via nerves rerouting to some extent.
    He seemed very angry that some stupid doctor in an OP cut this.


    (The trajectory he described, went close-by parallel to the spine.
    And, though way further down, reminded me of tunings I did in mine higher up in the C sideways out of a segment, parallel to the spine up, and back into another C segment.
    Seemed a similar route, though higher up, compared to his description.)

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