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Thread: Tippyness and COG, flip bk footrest, camber, and part replacement Q

  1. #1
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    Tippyness and COG, flip bk footrest, camber, and part replacement Q

    Its after 3 am so I'm drawing a blank at what my COG is actually set on right now... I'll add that in later if needed. But I don't think the number matters so much as the relativity to function with my question.

    The seating therapist put the COG at what he said is a good average to start with and works for most people. This is my first ultra lightweight so I don't have any comparison. I've noticed sometimes the casters rise off the ground for a moment when I'm pushing. At first I noticed it when I'm starting off from a standstill, so I considered it quite normal and just tipped my shoulders forward slightly when I start to move. But every now and then (maybe with a harder push?) I notice the casters pick up off the ground ever so slightly. Its very slight and I have anti tippers so I'm not afraid its going to flip me backwards. Yesterday I had tied a bag onto the back rigidizer bar for my wallet and such when going to the movies. We stopped at goodwill on the way, and I noticed it happening a bit more with that extra weight. I don't plan on having a backpack or anything attached to the back of my chair very often, I sew and am going to be making myself a version of the down under flat pac for my few necessities.

    Does this sound like a "normal" amount of tippyness, or a sign I should move the COG back a bit?

    Next, using my chair I've started finding the nuances related to my personal needs. Does quickie make a flip back footrest? Or, can tilites flip back footrest work with quickie (q7)? I haven't really done my research here which I usually do before starting to post questions. And how does the tilite one flip back, is it something like a hinge at the sides or is it 2 separate foot rests that flip up flush against the sides? I stand to transfer, and have to use my chair to push off and then balance myself. I have a 75 degree front with reversed footrest due to knee flexion issues making me have to stick my feet further in front of myself to stand. Its kind of a pain and sometimes I'm concerned about falling. I also posted before asking for any advice on how to do inclines. I haven't figured that out yet, one idea I had was foot propulsion backwards but its not possible with my chair's front end. I have medicaid, so even if this flip back footrest is available for my q7 I'm unsure if I could get medicaid to pay for it (especially so soon after getting the chair).

    Before I got my chair, a friend told me the camber can be changed on any chair with washers? I had mentioned wanting a chair with camber, and she said it can be adjusted on any chair. My Q7 was ordered with 3 degrees camber but I'm interested in trying a bit more. So is she right or would I need a 6 degree camber plug? I was reading around here that some consider 6 to be more efficient. My chair is pretty narrow with a 15" seat width so doorways shouldn't be an issue going up.

    Last I was wondering about anodized parts. On the order form its only $150 for the anodized package. Is it possible to get anodized replacement parts? And if so, any idea on cost or links? I did take a look at the quickie replacement parts site but didn't get much luck. I know it would be much more expensive than the upgrade since you're paying for the part AND the anodizing, rather than just the difference between composite and anodized aluminum. But since the parts of the chair wear out much faster than the frame itself I was wondering about replacing them with the anodized versions once needed. Which parts come anodized? From pictures I see the caster forks, what attaches the back to the seat, and parts around the axle. Since you don't have the option to just upgrade and pay the difference with medicaid I wanted to know the price to pay out of pocket. If its outrageous, I won't even bother dreaming about it and will dream about other pretty things to do to my chair I'm going to spray paint my spokes, and some day I'd like to get some FLSRs with purple anodized hub.
    Last edited by ~Lin; 01-23-2012 at 04:57 AM.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ZEN12many's Avatar
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    I was at my DME a few days ago and I saw a Quickie Q7 with a one piece footrest. I don't believe I saw this as an option on their web site so I was surprised.
    TM 2004 T12 incomplete

  3. #3
    Senior Member grommet's Avatar
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    I'll respond regarding COG. There is no proper COG. It is totally dependent on the rider and their needs. A friend liked a very light tippy front end. The slightest push and the front end would come up. He said it made it easier for him to make it over obstacles. If you have his control, never use your chair when you're tired or not paying totally attention and never carry any bags on the back, maybe this is a way to go. I tried it and it was fun. Easier to push and yep, getting over things was easier. I did almost crash pretty hard though at about 12mph coming back from the grocery store. The extra weight in back threw everything off and pushing to speed up I nearly went over backwards at speed. Scared the heck out of me. My old chair with more dump had a 3.25 COG my current Tilite TR has only 1.25.

    I played with it a lot and it just kept me nervous if I had more COG than that. It was always on my mind. With my COG now I don't even think about it. A big relief. I think the last straw for me with a superlight front end was when at a boatshow a couple of years ago going at walking speed I bumped into some fixture on the floor and I nearly went over, reaching for my balance with butterflies in my stomach I decided that was it. Not worth it to me.

    Also, your needs will change depending on lifestyle and how your disability may change things too. Experiment. Some people really like a neutral feel to their front end. Very even, easy to rise. A friend who has travelled the world, quite a bit of it in the Third World has an incredibly heavy front end. I tried his chair and it feels like he has a sack of cement there. He's got more chair experience than anyone I've met and it's not like he's doing it wrong - it works for him. With his injury, what he carries and where he goes, this is the right COG.

    So I caution you on going for 4 or 5 inches of COG because someone else has it. Also, there are people with negative COG, double amputees for instance with very little weight up front. I suggest you make slight changes and experiment. Falling over backwards can be pretty bad. I was injured for a month after I slammed down backwards, tore something behind a shoulder blade when I hit. With my Icon (coming soon) I plan to experiment a lot with seat dump, seat height and with COG, trying to find my perfect balance. I can't wait. Good luck.

    Oh, I don't recommend spray paint on anything, especially anything that flexes or is scraped often but if you do decide to try it, degrease anything you plan to paint. Alcohol swabs work pretty good. If it's bare metal, try Metal Etch (phosphoric acid). It's the same stuff they put in Coca Cola to give it that bite. It's very safe stuff and for (unpainted) metal prep it's the best stuff I've ever used.

  4. #4
    Lin, a would think the 'normal' amount of tippyness is what you're comfortable with. What you have sounds slightly less tippy than I have, but I like tippy. I have antitippers, and they have kept me from going over a number of times.

    Regarding flip-back, see my PM to you earlier today.

    Camber adjusment needs depends on the type of chair. For mine, which has a full axle, new camber plugs are needed. For my demo chair (Quickie 2), which didn't have an axle, the camber could be changed with washers. Personally, I like the full axle because it seems much more stable to me. I tried several different camber settuings on the Q2 before deciding which setting I preferred (i.e.4 degrees).

    Regarding anodizing, my experience is the cost for anodizing is minor compared to cost of the part. For example I just ordered FrogLegs Unitine forks from Sportaid.

    Attachment 43538

    On a TiLite chair, an anodizing package's contents varies between aluminum and titanium products as well as frame type. For my aluminum, Z-frame chair the package includes forks, axle, axle mounts, and foot-rest collars.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  5. #5
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    Zen, I'm not sure what you mean by 1 piece? My foot rest is made up of a U shaped bar that enters back up into the main frame of the chair. At the middle of that bar is a type of clamp, and then the footrest screws onto that clamp. Then the ends can move up and down into the frame, and you lock the height you want by tightening screws.

    It seems the tilite flip back foot rest is just the plate that flips up? I was imagining something on a hinge that could be folded back, like the entire U folding. Some inventor here needs to get right on that for me That would be more convenient I think than the current tilite flip back footrest, and easier to upgrade to or purchase later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by smashms View Post
    i know you have posted about inclines before but if you have the strength just wheel up them and as said before you can stand so just hold onto the chair and walk up.
    When I posted before I also explained that I DONT have the strength, thats the problem. I can't just wheel up them. And I'm not currently able to walk up (or down, but a short gentle one I can shuffle down) them either. So I can't just hold on to the chair and walk up. Thats why I posted the thread where I was asking.

    It sounds like my COG isn't abnormal. If the lighter front end and tippyness makes it easier to push, I think I'd rather stay around there then! Is it possible to flip over backwards with anti tips? I imagine it is if you're going at a certain speed or force, but I mean with normal use. I'm not going to be flying all over in my chair or anything like that. Since I have balance issues and cannot do curbs I don't plan on ever removing my anti tippers. I'm just going to modify them with rollerblade wheels so I can try curbs.

    Do spokes flex? I've been reading how-tos on biking forums about painting spokes. So hopefully it turns out pretty good.

    Chas: I know that the anodized part itself does not cost much. But having to purchase the parts out of pocket may be way out of possibility for me. With medicaid you can't choose to upgrade and pay the difference. For example with quickie the anodized package is $150 extra. I would not be allowed to pay $150 and get that anodized package. In that package you're just paying the cost difference between the composite parts, and the aluminum anodized parts. For me to purchase anodized parts I'd have to pay for the parts themselves out of pocket and not just the difference to get anodized. Does that make more sense?

    Thanks about the camber! I understand now, my friend just wasn't familiar with the (newer?) full axels. She currently has a kushall and I think she's had it for a while. She's been having issues with the casters and has to wheelie everywhere when she's not in her powerchair! I told her she needed to come on here and ask for help, she was putting off taking the chair in somewhere because of the cost.

    I also don't know what parts CAN come anodized! lol. Looking at the chairs the only parts I see anodized that I know the name of are the caster forks. Then I know there's some parts around the axle/camber/whatever area. Since I don't know what the parts are called I can't search for them to find prices. I tried clicking through the entire quickie q7 replacement parts lists and looking at the photos but didn't get anywhere. Again the only one I could figure out was the caster fork, and for the aluminum anodized option it didn't list a price but said to call quickie.
    Last edited by ~Lin; 01-23-2012 at 07:14 PM.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  6. #6
    Is this the type of footrest I think you are thinking about?

    Attachment 43539

    If so, your frame would have required an additional cross tube to be welded between the downtubes when the frame was fabricated. That is not something that Quickie has been willing to do on their rigid frames. TiLite has a Designs Unlimited special for this.



    On a cantilevered frame, the footrest provides a significant portion of the fame's rigidity. Beware of any suggestions to modify your footrest (other than turn it the other way so that it is closer). This is especially true with the Q7 given the use of ovalized 7000 series frame tubing.


  7. #7
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    No, thats not what I was thinking of. I don't think what I was thinking of exists lol. I just heard "flip back footrest" by tilite and pictured it differently. What I'm picturing has the same issue though, it would need a way to find stability.

    Forgive me, shaky hands and I did this in like 30 seconds on paint.


    I see now that there isn't anything that would bring the solution I was looking for. A flip up like tilite wouldn't work for what I was thinking or with my chair anyway.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ryano's Avatar
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    Here is Quickies "flip back" footrest that is on my Q7. Is this what you are talking about?




  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post

    When I posted before I also explained that I DONT have the strength, thats the problem. I can't just wheel up them. And I'm not currently able to walk up (or down, but a short gentle one I can shuffle down) them either. So I can't just hold on to the chair and walk up. Thats why I posted the thread where I was asking.

    The world isn't flat, getting around in a manual chair requires more strength than walking. In fact it is harder, a lot harder that walking. Why don't you have a power chair? If you cant wheel up a ramp or walk up it, you are boned.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    Actually getting around in a manual chair is incredibly easier than walking. I'm not sure what makes you think its harder. If it was, so many people with limited mobility would not be using wheelchairs part time to increase their mobility. In addition to being much easier than walking, for me its about balancing the damage since my disability is over my entire body. Walking damages my hips, knees, ankles. Pushing a wheelchair damages my shoulders, elbows, wrists. Getting more accomplished, with less pain, and the least amount of damage is the goal.

    I do not have a power chair because the purpose of the wheelchair is to increase my mobility and independence. I have no way of transporting a power chair. I am currently unemployed, I cannot get a job with a power chair if I have no way to get to work with the chair. I cannot go to school with a power chair if I have no way to get to school. I do not have a power chair because I am trying to increase my daily physical activity. I do not have a power chair because medicaid would not pay for a powerchair (catch 22, but here they won't pay for the chair unless you are a student or have a job and need the chair to do those things. When you're housebound and unable to work due to not having a chair, you're out of luck). I've been over the power chair vs manual many times in the past. I shouldn't have to rehash it over and over again, especially when it has no relevance to the questions I've asked.

    I don't know what "boned" means. I've been essentially housebound for over a year now, up until the date I got my chair. Already with the chair I've gone to the art museum for 4 hours, the childrens museum for nearly 5 hours, a movie, and twice to walmart. Before the chair my roommate had to do all of my grocery shopping and errands for me. He also currently has to drive me around to my Drs appointments because my knee has gotten so bad I can't drive my car since its a manual. I'm in the process of selling it. Right now, when it comes to those inclines my roommate has to push me.

    I don't want to need to be pushed, I want to be able to do them on my own. I'm working with my trainer on having my service dog pull me up inclines but thats still going to be a little ways away. And due to the physical demand on her as a mobility assistance service dog, I don't want her working too hard. So even once she can pull the chair for me in public I want to manually push as much as possible.

    I don't want to have to depend on others, I want my independence back. I want to get back to school so that someday I can have a career* and not be stuck depending on food stamps and medicaid. I don't want to hold having to pee halfway through a movie because theres a ramp, and I can't make it back to the theatre without assistance if I leave to use the restroom.

    *I refuse to believe that I will just continue to get worse and not better. Medicine does amazing things, and at some point I'll be able to have a career and accomplish my goals. I am absolutely not interested in debating that point.

    Hopefully that helps, considering this all has absolutely nothing to do with the questions I posed in this thread.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

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