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Thread: SP Constant Clogging with proteus mirabilis

  1. #21
    Sorry its been so long since my last response but I've had alot going on. Where do I start..

    After my last post I continued to get the clogging despite taking antibiotics and constant flushing. I found a temporary solution by using clear 20fr(or bigger) siloicone catheters. They took longer to clog and when they did Clog I could see where the clog was. Then place the cath on one palm and pound my other palm/wrist down on the cath(like clapping with the balls of your palms). That would loosen the mucus like stuff up 9 outta 10 times. It also helped to drink some water before doing it so it helps build pressure to push it through.Though this helped it wasn't an answer because I had to do it twice a day.

    So I found the Urologist with the highest rating in my area and went for a second opinion. Long story short he found a FIST SIZED BLADDER STONE! I just had it removed(laser) and I'm back to normal(but on antibiotics obviously). I dont know how the other doc missed it.. but I'm glad its done!


    Thanks to all of you again!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Padred123 View Post
    Sorry its been so long since my last response but I've had alot going on. Where do I start..

    After my last post I continued to get the clogging despite taking antibiotics and constant flushing. I found a temporary solution by using clear 20fr(or bigger) siloicone catheters. They took longer to clog and when they did Clog I could see where the clog was. Then place the cath on one palm and pound my other palm/wrist down on the cath(like clapping with the balls of your palms). That would loosen the mucus like stuff up 9 outta 10 times. It also helped to drink some water before doing it so it helps build pressure to push it through.Though this helped it wasn't an answer because I had to do it twice a day.

    So I found the Urologist with the highest rating in my area and went for a second opinion. Long story short he found a FIST SIZED BLADDER STONE! I just had it removed(laser) and I'm back to normal(but on antibiotics obviously). I dont know how the other doc missed it.. but I'm glad its done!


    Thanks to all of you again!
    It is great that you found a good physician. Thanks for checking in and bringing us up to date. And kudos to you for persevering in finding a urologist who is willing to work with and for you. Hope you are doing well after the bladder stone removal and that things only get better for you from here.

    All the best,
    GJ

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Padred123 View Post
    Sorry its been so long since my last response but I've had alot going on. Where do I start..

    After my last post I continued to get the clogging despite taking antibiotics and constant flushing. I found a temporary solution by using clear 20fr(or bigger) siloicone catheters. They took longer to clog and when they did Clog I could see where the clog was. Then place the cath on one palm and pound my other palm/wrist down on the cath(like clapping with the balls of your palms). That would loosen the mucus like stuff up 9 outta 10 times. It also helped to drink some water before doing it so it helps build pressure to push it through.Though this helped it wasn't an answer because I had to do it twice a day.

    So I found the Urologist with the highest rating in my area and went for a second opinion. Long story short he found a FIST SIZED BLADDER STONE! I just had it removed(laser) and I'm back to normal(but on antibiotics obviously). I dont know how the other doc missed it.. but I'm glad its done!


    Thanks to all of you again!
    I wanted to post an update to this. I'm doing much much better in the bladder dept. It took 2 laser surgeries to completely remove it because shortly after my last post and first surgury the dreaded mucous came back. So with a second go at removing what was left, a shot of Rocephin, and almost 30 days of Cipro the bladder sludge has stopped for 5 months or so. My pee has never been so healthy

    Now if I could solve my AD during my bowel program I'd be golden. Here's my post about that: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=185118

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Padred123 View Post
    The Dr ordered a xray that was negative of stones. I haven't used the renacidin yet. I was prescribed it a long time ago but never used it and now its out of date.

    What has better results Renacidin or Vetericyn? Anyone used both? Also I've read Proteus thrives in alkaline environments. Should I try to lower my ph(more acidic)? If so.. Any tips?
    I remember trying Renacidin years ago but I can't even remember what era of time or under what circumstances even though I am having the same problem you are. I just replied (with a long post about my story) to one of the more recent persons who is also having a problem with their catheter clogging.

    I read just a couple months ago however that Renacidin is not effective against stones or sediment that is made of calcium oxalate which, mind unfortunately were. I was going to try it until I read that from a reputable online source. I don't have that source at my fingertips at the moment but it burst my balloon on possibly using it. Although, you can only find it at certain homeopathic pharmacies that have to make it up. I have two of them nearby me and I called both of them. One says they are not making anymore. The other one said they are making it but they can't access it from where they order it from. In other words, it is becoming obsolete. So beware of that suggestion! You would have to find out what type of stones you are creating before considering and now FINDING Renacidin.
    Last edited by Brinda41; 01-05-2013 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Wrong information

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Quad Kings View Post
    I seem to be having a similar problem all of a sudden, without history of stones (so far ... that I know of). I have indwelling silicone 5 cc balloon catheters. But am seeing a lot of gunky/powdery buildup in the connector piece between the catheter and leg bag tubing.

    It seems that these clogs started coming after I cut way back on my alcohol consumption (from 3-4 times a week to 1-2 times a month). This issue may literally drive me to drink.

    I posted a question in this forum a couple days ago looking for what I thought were called 'super slick' indwelling Foley catheters (the only response I got suggested hydrophilic/lofric caths, but best I can tell they are only made for intermittent cathing). Also, I don't have UTI problems ever (maybe once a year at most).
    I tried those "super slick" catheters and I believe they are called Silastic catheters. I was trying them in the year 2000. But every single one I tried... the balloon was lopsided and therefore it leaked around it. I had to get in bed almost every single day and have the catheter changed, etc. until we found the problem (the lopsided balloon). I thought we just got a bad batch so we requested a different batch from the company but they were the same so I just gave up. That was almost 13 years ago however so perhaps you can pursue them and try them out.

    Best!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Padred123 View Post
    Thanks. I will print it out. I'm a lil afraid I might insult him but at this point who cares. I might actually get a second opinion. I need to do something because everything I'm doing isn't working. I've changed about 5 catheters since my last post. This is completely discouraging. I feel like I'm at the end of my rope. I've read so much and the more I read the more hopeless it seems. According to the studies I've read proteus mirabilis is near impossible to get rid of.

    Although there is some promise of fighting it off by filling the catheter balloon with triclosan but I'm still not sure of how many studies there has been. Drinking alot of water and lemon/lime drinks(which I do) is supposed to slow growth a little bit. I've started my own test by using 100% silicone catheters and filling the balloon with diluted vinegar since the encrustations can only grow in a ph 7 or greater but we'll see..

    Also, I tried the silver cath but it only lasted two days then clogged like the rest of them(what a waste of $15) and I haven't ordered the vetericyn but I will very soon.

    Heres some more good reading on proteus mirabilis.

    And here is the thread on this site that includes a journal article on instilling and irrigating foley catheters (by reputable doctors) when all else fails:

    http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=6703 <--- You just have to scroll down the thread a little to find the article left by an SCI nurse.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Brinda41 View Post
    And here is the thread on this site that includes a journal article on instilling and irrigating foley catheters (by reputable doctors) when all else fails:

    http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=6703 <--- You just have to scroll down the thread a little to find the article left by an SCI nurse.
    The passage in this article that is germane to bladder irrigation appears below:

    Irrigation
    Muncie and associates30 compared daily irrigations versus no irrigation of long-term indwelling catheters in 32 subjects. There were no differences between groups in the incidence of symptomatic urinary tract infection, encrustation, or obstruction when daily irrigation with saline was added to routine catheter management. In 1978, Bruun and Digranes31 compared twice-daily bladder irrigation with saline, acetic acid, chlorhexidine, and silver nitrate solutions in patients with indwelling catheters and known bacteriuria. Saline and acetic acid did not change the colony counts; chlorhexidine and silver nitrate solution both did. Silver nitrate, however, was painful for the patient, and the authors recommended further research on chlorhexidine irrigations. Unfortunately, later research on chlorhexidine solutions has shown that continuous long-term use does not confer any significant benefit and might, in fact, contribute to antibiotic-resistant organisms.32

    In Europe, an accepted measure for managing blocked catheters is irrigation with an acetic acid solution.33 Although acetic acid alone does not reduce colony counts, a combined solution of 3.2% citrate, 0.38% light magnesium oxide, 0.7% sodium bicarbonate, and 0.01% disodium edetate does seem to effectively reduce Proteus infection and encrustation.34 A more concentrated solution has been used following lithotripsy to dissolve struvite stones, but the solution irritates the bladder mucosa and is not recommended as a bladder irrigation solution.
    RENACIDINâ„¢, a solution of citric acid, glucono-delta-lactone, and magnesium carbonate is used for renal calculi and has been advertised as a preventive strategy for catheter encrustations; however, no research has been conducted on the product, and product information warns of potential adverse reactions, especially in patients with compromised renal function.35 MANDELIC acid can also reduce the colony count in the catheterized bladder but is less effective against Proteus mirabilis than the other solutions.32 Several other studies18,21,36,37 indicate a potential benefit of routine irrigation with a small volume of a washout solution in indwelling catheters, but clinical trials are needed to prove the efficacy of this management strategy.


    The irrigation solutions discussed are: saline, acetic acid, chlorhexidine, silver nitrate solutions, RENACIDIN a solution of citric acid, glucono-delta-lactone, and magnesium carbonate, and MANDELIC acid (phenylglycolic acid). Household vinegar diluted with water is not discussed. The solution that comes the closest to a homemade vinegar diluted with water solution is acetic acid supplied in a 0.25% concentration. The difficulty with the homemade vinegar and water diluted solution is the variance of the concentration. The pharmacologically prepared acetic acid solution has a specific concentration and thus is probably preferable to the homemade attempts to produce it by diluting vinegar with water. Common vinegars vary greatly in the % of acid from brand to brand. Many grocery store house brand vinegars are 4-5%, while a national name brand like Heinz is 7%. You can read the results of using each solution in the passage above.

    It is probably important to consider that this article is 10 years old. There may be more recent studies and literature that your doctor may be using in his consideration of the issue.

    All the best,
    GJ

  8. #28
    Senior Member zagam's Avatar
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    Very wise to qualify pH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Padred123 View Post
    Should I try to lower my ph(more acidic)?
    pH or p[H] is a measure of acidity and used to have a minus sign.

    At some point the minus sign got dropped (so now Log of reciprocal) and it got confused.

    The terms more acidic and less acidic are not at all confusing.

    Drink, eat cranberries, etc.

  9. #29
    Senior Member zagam's Avatar
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    Stones

    Just as some foods cause gout others cause oxalate stones. If you drink more then concentration will be lower.
    http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseas...iet/index.aspx
    http://www.med.umich.edu/intmed/neph...ocs/stones.pdf

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by zagam View Post
    Just as some foods cause gout others cause oxalate stones. If you drink more then concentration will be lower.
    http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseas...iet/index.aspx
    http://www.med.umich.edu/intmed/neph...ocs/stones.pdf
    Hmm very interesting.. Thanks for the info.

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