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Thread: Installing D's Locks

  1. #41
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Many thanks Chas. Sorry to hear you had to give yours up. It will probably be at least a month until I get to this, but it's good information to have.

    Interesting about some piston positions not engaging. We will be going with 2 degree camber, so maybe it will be a bit less.

    About the "bicycle cable lube clamp" -- is this it? If not, can you show me what that looks like with a link? I'm not familiar with it, but I don't think it will be hard to find in bike crazy Holland.

    I'm really kind of getting the feeling that the documentation is non-existent. Kind of scary to me. Maybe I should have made the order contingent on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    I fiddled a lot with D's Lock installation over the couple years I used them. (I really miss them, but I want the MagicWheels more, and they are mutually exclusive.)

    D's tips:
    - TiLite's axle sleeves are not centered in the axle tube, so some piston positions won't engage the wheels' lock rings. I found that the positions between about 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock wouldn't engage. (I have 4 degrees camber.)
    - For some positions, other chair hardware blocks access to the axle-clamp cap screws; the pistons and axle clamps are all interchangeable, so just play around with them until their positioning works for you.
    - For easier accessibility and adjustability, I installed the pistons' lock nuts outboard.
    - Because some users reported stiff operation and even broken cables, I lubed the cables and pistons with white lithium grease during installation. They always worked very smoothly for me.
    - for multiple wheel sets to work interchangeably with D's, each wheel should have its own lock ring. If the wheels are identical (e.g., different tires but same wheels), the lock rings could be swapped back and forth between wheels, but doing so would be akin to changing tires: it's a bit tedious.
    -tools I used for D's: 3/16" Allen wrench, bicycle cable lube clamp, 1-1/8 deep socket with handle (for piston lock nuts), #1 Phillips (for installing lock rings on Spinergy wire wheels), 7/16" wrench or socket (for adjusting handle tension), large flat bladed screwdriver (for spreading axle clamps to slip over axles - insert tip between cap screw mounting surfaces, and twist slightly to spread clamp).

    Chas
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    Many thanks Chas. Sorry to hear you had to give yours up. It will probably be at least a month until I get to this, but it's good information to have.

    Interesting about some piston positions not engaging. We will be going with 2 degree camber, so maybe it will be a bit less.

    About the "bicycle cable lube clamp" -- is this it? If not, can you show me what that looks like with a link? I'm not familiar with it, but I don't think it will be hard to find in bike crazy Holland.

    I'm really kind of getting the feeling that the documentation is non-existent. Kind of scary to me. Maybe I should have made the order contingent on it.
    The installation is pretty straightforward and certainly not worth worrying over. As with most things, a picture is worth a thousand words. Having the actual thing in your hands will be worth ten thousand words.

    My ZR2 has 2 degrees of camber. Therefore, for the pins to line up properly with the disk holes, the pistons have to be positioned at either 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock. At any other position they won't engage. This is the case with my Surelock system. (I also have a Surelock system for my Halls chair. When I initially installed them I positioned the pistons at 6 o'clock. They didn't work. I assumed they were defective. They weren't. I was. It happens.)

    On a chair with 0-degree camber, the pistons can be positioned at any location.
    Last edited by stephen212; 01-25-2013 at 06:32 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    About the "bicycle cable lube clamp" -- is this it?

    . . .

    I'm really kind of getting the feeling that the documentation is non-existent. Kind of scary to me. Maybe I should have made the order contingent on it.
    Yep, that's it

    My D's arrived with a single sheet of simple instructions, which I threw away after one quick read. Installation is really pretty simple like Stephen says:

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen212 View Post
    The installation is pretty straightforward and certainly not worth worrying over.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  4. #44
    Senior Member IsMaisin's Avatar
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    If you ever want more information than you could possibly need about maintaining brake cables, just search for information on bicycle brake maintenance. There are tons of videos and walkthroughs.

    If you want your D's to be a fancy color or match your chair, just look for a local shop that does plating, anodizing, or powder coating before you install the parts. Plenty of places in even small cities provide these services.

    Grommet - thanks for the just installed pictures. Those really give me an excellent idea of what they are and how they work.
    Played with bombs- No SCI, Brain Damage enough that I require a chair and a caregiver.

  5. #45
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I think I'm finally getting my head around how these work too. It's not looking too hard. When I install them, I'll try to do a step-by-step guide, from whats-in-the-box through install.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  6. #46
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    This is probably a very stupid question, but I would be curious to hear input. When I first started looking for locks / disc brakes I just made an assumption that they would be like those used on mountain bikes with a rotor, caliper and brake pads, rather than engaging the spokes. Certainly companies like Spinergy make wheels/hubs for disc brakes in the mountain bike industry and I think they are also used on many handcycles. Can someone enlighten me why it's not possible on a wheelchair?
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  7. #47
    Senior Member IsMaisin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    This is probably a very stupid question, but I would be curious to hear input. When I first started looking for locks / disc brakes I just made an assumption that they would be like those used on mountain bikes with a rotor, caliper and brake pads, rather than engaging the spokes. Certainly companies like Spinergy make wheels/hubs for disc brakes in the mountain bike industry and I think they are also used on many handcycles. Can someone enlighten me why it's not possible on a wheelchair?
    I was an avid cyclist, with over 10,000 miles on two and three wheels. I've built some wheels myself, and wrenched plenty of bikes.

    A wheelchair has two difficulties with disk brakes: the fact that we remove our wheels to the side, and the torsional rather than lateral stresses that disk brakes apply to the wheel.

    ADI uses a custom spline insert that replaces the inboard bearing of the hub. The disk is attached to this, and the spline allows the wheel to be removed downward instead of outward. It has to move down, away from the brake, because the two sides of the brake clamp around the disk to provide braking force. The spline rotates with the wheel and can be thought of as an extension of the camber tube. The outboard bearing ring allow the wheel to rotate around the axle.

    Bicycles with disk brakes have the advantage of already being removed downward away from the fork. Hubs for disk brake bicycles have one flange that is higher and drilled to accept the screws that hold the disk on.

    The closest analog in the biking world to a wheelchair is a trike. The two wheels across from each other are attached in a slightly different way. My trike has a hollow axle tube that fits inside the hub bearings and sticks out far enough to hold securely in the receiving tube of the trike frame. To remove the wheel, I first have to remove the inner axle that looks like a standard quick release bicycle axle. All this pard does is prevents the tubular axle from sliding out over time. Then I have to use a hammer to push the axle out of the wheel and into the receiving tube before I can drop the wheel downward out of the brake pads. You cant do that on a wheelchair because our axles slot into the camber tube and there is no way to push back from the other side.

    Wheelchairs almost always have their spokes laced in a radial pattern (spokes go strait out from the hub to the rim) This is not only the lightest possible pattern, but also has the highest resistance to lateral stress, the kind you would get if you had the bike tipped to one side. But it has the lowest resistance to the torsional stress that a disk brake applies. The stress from the brake to the rim is transmitted at a right angle and requires a heavy spoke to resist bending with the stress.

    The way bicycles handle this stress is by crossing the spokes (lacing) in different patterns so that the stress through the spokes is applied at an angle and allows some of the stress to be carried by the length of the spoke. By crossing the spokes in patterns of two, three, or four crossings of other spokes between the hub and rim the spokes in most patterns will physically touch another spoke, each providing a slight bend to the other in a different direction than the sheer force applied when braking. (ref: sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuildl )
    Played with bombs- No SCI, Brain Damage enough that I require a chair and a caregiver.

  8. #48
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Many thanks for the detailed explanation IsMaisin. I knew there had to be reasons, but just did not know what they were. I figured that quick release axles/camber tube might be the issue, but had not thought of the difference in torsion/twisting.

    I am familiar with lacing bicycle spokes, but I only did it once, rather poorly. I guess if torsion was the only issue, it could be overcome with a bit of added weight, but I suspect there is no way of getting around the axle/camber issue unless the wheels are fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by IsMaisin View Post
    ...A wheelchair has two difficulties with disk brakes: the fact that we remove our wheels to the side, and the torsional rather than lateral stresses that disk brakes apply to the wheel....
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  9. #49
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Installing D's Locks questions

    Hi All,

    I think I managed to get the D's Locks installed, and they are working great. My partner has hemiparesis and “neglects” (forgets about) the brakes on one side -- problem solved with D’s Locks! Although we have Spinergy LX’s with PBO spokes, we don’t find the “rocking” too concerning. They seem very solid.

    We had the lock rings and adaptors anodized black locally (turned out nice for about half the price that D's Locks quoted), but I forgot about the moon shaped pieces. Although I would have preferred them black like DaleB's on his Lasher (post #6), I would have then wanted to replace the 26 aluminum screws with black zinc (can't win!). Probably I am the only one this will bother.

    I have a few questions about installing the piston assembly and adaptor that I hope someone can help with.

    We have a ZRA2 with Spinergy LX wheels. The chair width is 16” with 1” wheel spacing and we also have anti-tips that occupy space on the camber tube. This means that the working space on the camber tube is very limited. As they say in real estate -- location, location, location!

    In the “D’s Locks Installation Instructions Camber Tube” it says:
    6. Set clearance between sleeve and Lock-ring to ¼ inch and tighten nut.
    On our chair this was not possible. There is no clearance if I put the locking nut on the outside of the adaptor (closest to the hub). I switched the locking nut to the inside of the adaptor and it appears that there is enough clearance for them to engage and it feels solid. I’m assuming that the locking nut can go on either side of the adaptor based on photo’s and posts I’ve read here about everything being interchangable.

    Question 1: What is considered to be the sleeve when measuring clearance? I assume it to be the top of where the threads start on the piston or the top of the locking nut if the locking nut is on the outside of the adaptor (closest to the hub).

    Question 2: Is something just above 1/8” enough clearance and are they secure enough? They seem to work well and there is enough clearance for the lock rings, and they engage well. Below are photo’s of the piston, adaptor with the lock engaged, 1) without the wheel to show the clearance, 2) with the wheel to show the clearance, 3) from an angle to show protrusion of the piston from the lock ring. (Click for larger images).



    Question 3: We plan to get a power add-on (ZX1) that will mount to the camber tube. I have already read that it is a tight squeeze with a 16” wide chair and the ZX1, and I know we will probably need to remove the anti-tip receivers. I anticipate that the length of the piston is probably going to get in the way even without the anti-tips. Has anyone shortened the pistons? Assuming that things work with “Question 1”, it is far more piston than we need when I compare it to other’s chairs.

    Question 4: Do D’s Locks use Teflon-coated cables? If so, I assume they do not need to be lubricated on installation, but maintained with a “dry” silicone or Teflon based lubricant. Any input?

    Question 5: I saw that others have used Plasti-dip or a plastic covering on the lever, but I’m wondering if anyone knows of a similar covering we could do like the Out-Front Composite Lock lever?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As mentioned in another post #159, I'm also trying to get this better documented, and am doing a "D's Locks for Dummies" so that people like me can follow it (I have had e-mails with Steve at D's Locks about this and he seems interested). These are the more general questions I am curious about for that:

    Question 6: Do all moon shaped pieces have 26 phillips head screws, or is it dependent on the wheel?

    Question 7: I weighed our D’s Locks before installing them, and they were approximately 1.5 lbs (685 gr). I saw someone else mention a much heavier weight in a post, and I wonder if I got something really wrong there. And I am not going to take them apart to re-weigh them!

    Question 8: For thread locker, do most people use Loctite® (blue) 242 or 243 or Vibra-TITE® VC-3 (TiLite uses this most)?

    Question 9: I used Loctite® 7063 Cleaner Degreaser before the Loctite thread locker. I don’t know if it was necessary, but would like to hear if others have done similar and agree/disagree?

    Question 10: For maintenance, would the following be accurate, and how often do you do it?:

    - Inspect the lock rings to make sure they are aligned and that all screws are securely fastened.
    - Inspect the piston assembly and ensure the locking nut is securely fastened.
    - Apply a “dry” silicone or Teflon® based lubricant into the spring and ratchet mechanism on the lever, while extending and releasing the lever.
    - Apply a “dry” silicone or Teflon® based lubricant into the lever pivot and work it into the joint by extending and releasing the lever.

    Okay, I think I will stop with all of my questions for now.

    Thanks for any help you can give.
    Last edited by elarson; 04-29-2013 at 08:31 PM.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  10. #50
    Senior Member IsMaisin's Avatar
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    My D's have red Loctite.

    For maintenance you can follow the advice for bicycle cables for cable actuated (not hydraulic) disk brakes.

    For the lever, you can use anything you please - the only function is releasing tension on the cable.
    Played with bombs- No SCI, Brain Damage enough that I require a chair and a caregiver.

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