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Thread: Michigan no fault reform bill

  1. #51
    Thanks Art for no helmet info. This law took effect instantaneously, I have been keeping a rough count of helmet vs no helmet riders since it took effect. Yesterday, all three riders I saw were helmetless but usually it is less than 1/2 helmetless. These riders must have been on the line w their insurance reps as soon as Snyder signed the bill. 20,000 medical coverage is a drop in the bucket re a severe head injury, Medicaid will be paying for a lot of these folks in nursing homes in no time. In other words, these brave libertarians will be enjoying an early, extended retirement at taxpayer expense. I am sure I would be dead had I not been wearing a helmet. I have been wondering if the helmetless are required to carry proof of their additional insurance and if the cops are looking for reasons to stop them so they can check.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientgimp View Post
    Thanks Art for no helmet info. This law took effect instantaneously, I have been keeping a rough count of helmet vs no helmet riders since it took effect. Yesterday, all three riders I saw were helmetless but usually it is less than 1/2 helmetless. These riders must have been on the line w their insurance reps as soon as Snyder signed the bill. 20,000 medical coverage is a drop in the bucket re a severe head injury, Medicaid will be paying for a lot of these folks in nursing homes in no time. In other words, these brave libertarians will be enjoying an early, extended retirement at taxpayer expense. I am sure I would be dead had I not been wearing a helmet. I have been wondering if the helmetless are required to carry proof of their additional insurance and if the cops are looking for reasons to stop them so they can check.
    What this new law is about if you get hurt they hope you die so not to pay anything.
    They ride by my house all day and I would guess 80 percent don't wear a helmet.
    They gave up there lifetime unlimted medical benfits....still pay about the same for ins....and only get at most 20,000 for a injury which is nothing....and if they live taxpayers will pick up the bill.....so sad.

    Art
    Art

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Art454 View Post
    LANSING, MI — Illegal immigrants and people who commit certain crimes would be banned from receiving personal injury protection benefits if they’re hurt in a car crash under legislation introduced by House Republicans.

    Personal injury protection, or PIP, is part of Michigan’s required no-fault auto insurance policy that covers all medical costs associated with a vehicle accident injury. PIP pays up to 85 percent of the income lost as a result of the injury for up to three years, with a maximum of about $5,100 per month. It also covers up to $20 per day for household services like yard work that the person can no longer handle on their own.

    House Bills 4993 and 5587-5589 would exempt certain groups from receiving those benefits, even if they have PIP coverage on their auto insurance.

    According to a House Fiscal Agency analysis, that includes someone who:

    •Is not authorized under federal law to be present in the United States

    •Used a vehicle in the commission of a crime or fleeing from a crime that’s punishable by more than one year in prison

    •Operated a vehicle or motorcycle while intoxicated, visibly impaired or with any amount of a controlled substance in his or her body

    •Was a passenger in a vehicle that was taken unlawfully, if the person knew or had reason to believe that the motor vehicle or motorcycle was unlawfully taken (The driver in such an instance is already exempt from PIP benefits.)

    “Michigan motorists cannot afford to subsidize costs of injuries of those committing felonious activities… (they) should not be entitled to Michigan’s generous PIP benefits,” Cindy Denby, R-Handy Township, said during a committee hearing this week.

    Denby sponsored HB 5587, which denies coverage for people injured in a crash while committing a felony.

    Michigan auto insurers paid out more than $2 billion in PIP claims in 2011, according to the state Office of Financial and Insurance Regulation.

    The average cost of personal injury claims has more than quadrupled in the last two decades, going from $8,365 per claim in 1991 to $36,229 in 2011, according to the National Independent Statistical Service.

    About 41 percent of Michigan premiums went toward PIP coverage in 2010, up from about 27 percent in 2002, according to the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

    Lawmakers have been considering reforming the no-fault system to allow consumers to choose different levels of PIP coverage.

    Rep. Margaret O'Brien, R-Portage, said her constituents are “mad as hornets” about the rising costs for personal injury protection. She sponsored HB 5588, which deals with people who were injured while operating under the influence.

    She said she’s not sure how much PIP costs would be reduced. The real point of the bill, she said, was to prevent people who break the law from receiving the benefits.

    Opponents of the legislation say it would simply shift costs to health care providers, health insurance policy holders and Medicaid.

    “This is a very bad idea economically for Michigan,” said John Prosser II, vice president at Health Partners Inc., a Southfield-based home health care provider that serves patients with catastrophic injuries.

    “Compassion matters as well,” he said. “They have already been punished by the accident and by their injury.”

    Grand Rapids attorney Richard Kessler, member of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, testified against HB 4993, which exempts illegal immigrants from receiving PIP benefits.

    Kessler said he understands the correlation between accidents that occur while someone is driving under the influence, but he doesn’t understand why someone’s immigration status would prevent them from receiving PIP benefits.

    “We’re singling people out and denying them coverage for something that’s not related at all to the driving issue,” he said.

    The state Office of Financial and Insurance Regulations has taken a neutral stance on the bills.

    The House Insurance Committee did not vote on the bills and will likely continue testimony at a later date. Chairman Pete Lund, R-Shelby Township, said the bills still need some work.
    It also covers up to $20 per day for household services like yard work that the person can no longer handle on their own.
    That is for only 3 years also and has been 20.00 dollars since 1973.
    No increase there. Who the hell you gona get to come do anything for 20.00 dollars a day today.....what a joke that is.....should be a least 100.00 dollars today or more just for inflation.

    Art
    Art

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Art454 View Post
    I still think someone wants all that money in the MCCA fund.

    And screw anybody it takes to get it....which by the way.....is....

    ............We The People Of Michigan......


    Why won't the MCCA show transparency....what do they have to hide?

    We The People voted no in 92 and 94.....what part of NO is not understood.

    Wish more Michiganers would get in here.

    I feel like am fighting the fight by myself.....say anything that comes into your mind.

    Art
    Michigan is broke and you can see by whats going on they want OUR MONEY.
    I bumped this up cause it fits so perfect with the helemt law which in a few years Michigan will be worse off by far.
    Also in michigan.....has been for years if you are hurt by a defective product you can not sue for damage....Michigan did this to try and get more business in the state.
    Boy that worked well now didn't it?

    Art
    Art

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientgimp View Post
    Thanks Art for no helmet info. This law took effect instantaneously, I have been keeping a rough count of helmet vs no helmet riders since it took effect. Yesterday, all three riders I saw were helmetless but usually it is less than 1/2 helmetless. These riders must have been on the line w their insurance reps as soon as Snyder signed the bill. 20,000 medical coverage is a drop in the bucket re a severe head injury, Medicaid will be paying for a lot of these folks in nursing homes in no time. In other words, these brave libertarians will be enjoying an early, extended retirement at taxpayer expense. I am sure I would be dead had I not been wearing a helmet. I have been wondering if the helmetless are required to carry proof of their additional insurance and if the cops are looking for reasons to stop them so they can check.
    I think in Michigan if your on Medicare....state pays like 37 percent and the feds pay the other 63 percent of medicare....so they trying to push it off on the feds to try and save money....like the fed. gov. has any money to....which all taxpayers pay then.

    Art
    Art

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Art454 View Post
    I think in Michigan if your on Medicare....state pays like 37 percent and the feds pay the other 63 percent of medicare....so they trying to push it off on the feds to try and save money....like the fed. gov. has any money to....which all taxpayers pay then.

    Art
    Think you mean Medicaid Art, that's what pays for nursing homes after the individual exhausts all his/her health insurance and personal/family savings. Almost all Repub pols at state and federal level want Medicaid block granted so that the feds hand over the $ and the state makes the rules and regs for expenditure. Since nursing homes have strong lobbying power they will likely be taken care of, state Repub pols will likely want to reduce the state share of Medicaid by cutting in home care, purchase of wheelchairs, assistive devices, etc. Meanwhile a good number of helmetless, Michigan riders will be consuming way more than their share of Medicaid funds in Mi nursing homes.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientgimp View Post
    Think you mean Medicaid Art, that's what pays for nursing homes after the individual exhausts all his/her health insurance and personal/family savings. Almost all Repub pols at state and federal level want Medicaid block granted so that the feds hand over the $ and the state makes the rules and regs for expenditure. Since nursing homes have strong lobbying power they will likely be taken care of, state Repub pols will likely want to reduce the state share of Medicaid by cutting in home care, purchase of wheelchairs, assistive devices, etc. Meanwhile a good number of helmetless, Michigan riders will be consuming way more than their share of Medicaid funds in Mi nursing homes.
    Your right I meant Medicaid....sorry for the mistake.
    If you only get Medicare still would not be enough to live on with a serious injury so I guess you would use that up then be put on Medicaid?
    It all sounds sad to me for all Michiganers.

    Art
    Art

  8. #58
    You are right, too bad for Michiganders. I have friends who are no fault injuries and they receive great, lifelong services. Several years ago my wife was hospitalized for 160 days, 1st in one acute care hospital, then a 2nd in a specialty program located in a 2nd acute care hospital, the remaining approximate 100 days in a nursing home but not classified as a long term care pt. We used up all her Medicare eligibility at the nursing home and all but a few days of our private BC/BS backup. If she had needed further care we would have then had to expend all our joint savings and investments until we would then be eligible for Medicaid. Being wheelchair users we had never been eligible to access LTC insurance. The helmetless riders will run through the additional, required health insurance in just days, will exhaust the limits of any other health care they have, then if they have a catastrophic head injury will exhaust all their family's assets then be eligible for Medicaid. I am sure the insurance industry will party down if succesful in eliminating no fault. I can't help but suspect that the helmetless rider law and campaign to kill no fault are tied together in a politician/lobbyist deal.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientgimp View Post
    You are right, too bad for Michiganders. I have friends who are no fault injuries and they receive great, lifelong services. Several years ago my wife was hospitalized for 160 days, 1st in one acute care hospital, then a 2nd in a specialty program located in a 2nd acute care hospital, the remaining approximate 100 days in a nursing home but not classified as a long term care pt. We used up all her Medicare eligibility at the nursing home and all but a few days of our private BC/BS backup. If she had needed further care we would have then had to expend all our joint savings and investments until we would then be eligible for Medicaid. Being wheelchair users we had never been eligible to access LTC insurance. The helmetless riders will run through the additional, required health insurance in just days, will exhaust the limits of any other health care they have, then if they have a catastrophic head injury will exhaust all their family's assets then be eligible for Medicaid. I am sure the insurance industry will party down if succesful in eliminating no fault. I can't help but suspect that the helmetless rider law and campaign to kill no fault are tied together in a politician/lobbyist deal.

    I can't help but suspect that the helmetless rider law and campaign to kill no fault are tied together in a politician/lobbyist deal.
    I was thinking the same thing myself.....they see how this goes then go for the big one.

    Art
    Art

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Art454 View Post
    I can't help but suspect that the helmetless rider law and campaign to kill no fault are tied together in a politician/lobbyist deal.
    I was thinking the same thing myself.....they see how this goes then go for the big one.

    Art
    Some reporters I have read were shocked that Gov Snyder did not veto the helmetless rider law since statistics (from other states) seem to bear out that deaths will rise and that Medicaid funds will be depleted by former riders w catastrophic head injuries. Among some circles, Snyder has a reputation for being a common sense politician, not an idealogue. That's what makes me think this (no helmet law) and ending no fault are a package deal done in a backroom by the Republican hierarchy sponsored by insurance company lobbyists. The no helmet law is no skin off the insurance companies' backs because the required amount of extra insurance is a drop in the bucket compared to actual medical costs while their savings from killing no fault will be huge.

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