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Thread: Michigan no fault reform bill

  1. #21
    TO: Brain Injury Association of Michigan Members

    FROM: Michael Dabbs

    DATE: December 16, 2011

    SUBJ: Senator Darwin Booher

    I wanted to share the most recent of many really great stories that we have seen occur during the fall as part of our Association’s efforts in advocating for the auto no-fault insurance system. Unfortunately, I don’t know who the member was; however, this member who has a son with a brain injury met with their State Senator, Darwin Booher. Sen. Booher represents the mid-Michigan area including Clare County and a few counties to the northwest of Clare. This member and their son made an extremely good case to the senator sharing with him how services received from their no-fault insurance made a substantial difference in the quality of their life. They made such an impression on the senator that he wanted to know more about why this issue was even before the legislature. The member urged the Senator to call the Brain Injury Association of Michigan and speak with Mike Dabbs.

    Senator Booher’s office called and I met with him earlier this week. The senator told me that he had had members of the district complain about the cost of auto insurance to him and that when he had first learned of the auto no-fault legislation that he had been inclined to vote in favor of the proposed changes. However, he said meeting our member and their son caused him to rethink his position and that is why he wanted to learn more. After I got finished explaining that there was nothing in the legislation that would cause insurance premiums to go down, that our insurance rates are not the highest in the nation and that the MCCA was not being transparent with the numbers of injured victims and the possible amount that each case was reserved for; Sen. Booher had a new view point about the legislation.

    This happened because of our member and their son taking the time to share their personal story with the senator. I know many of you have done this, written letters, called your legislators, attended town hall meetings, and worked diligently to stop this legislation. I cannot even begin to tell you how proud and thankful I am for each and every one of you and your efforts.

    Have a wonderful Holiday with family and friends and a New Year filled with good health and much happiness!


  2. #22
    State Rep. Richard LeBlanc, D-Westland, said no one pays taxes in the current no-fault system. LeBlanc said the Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association does not respond to Freedom of Information requests, and that he's been told that the MCCA has anywhere between $14 billion and $28 billion in reserves. Insured drivers pay $140 annually to fund the MCCA.

    In September, Sen. Peter Lund introduced House Bill 4936, which is seeking to eliminate our current personal injury protection, or PIP, by allowing drivers to purchase capped medical benefits as low as $250,000 in exchange for reduced premiums. His bill states that the MCCA budget is ready to implode. But the finances of the organization are not open to public scrutiny as the Freedom of Information Act does not apply to it, so it is impossible to verify this claim.

    So who is right?

  3. #23
    Michigan auto insurance company profits, profits, profits

    As if all of that were not disturbing enough, consider how much the CPAN study estimates that Michigan’s auto insurance companies will profit from so-called No Fault “reform.”

    Setting aside the fact that there are no guarantees in writing that Michigan drivers will actually save money (or how much) as a result of the dismantling of Michigan’s No Fault system, the CPAN study shows that Michigan’s auto insurance companies will experience little to no change in the amount of premium dollars they collect from Michigan drivers.

    But they will experience seismic changes on the other side of the balance sheet.

    According to the CPAN study, so-called No Fault “reform” will allow Michigan’s auto insurance companies to “pay out between $91 and $109 million less in claims each year …”

    All of this is poetry for Michigan’s auto insurance industry.

    Protect Michigan drivers and families

    There is only one way to avoid real harm to Michigan residents, and that is to prevent dismantling of Michigan’s No-Fault Law in the first place.

    Call your State Representative and State Senator and tell them about this important study from CPAN.

    Ask why we are dismantling the nation’s best insurance system to give an unnecessary boondoggle to insurance companies that are already making more money in Michigan than in any other state.

    Ask, if lowering auto insurance premiums is truly the goal, aren’t there far better ways of achieving this rather than savaging No-Fault benefits for those who will need them most, such as regulating the amount of profits that insurance companies can make in Michigan for a product (auto insurance) that residents are required by state law to purchase?

    Ask, why is Michigan one of the only states where the insurance commissioner does not have the power to regulate insurance company profits?

  4. #24
    I don't think you even understand what bill 4936 proposes. If you'd bothered to check, all existing claims are grandfathered for life. Don't worry, your great grandchildren will still be forced to pay for your care even if they are reduced to living in their cars because they have nothing left.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MSspouse View Post
    I don't think you even understand what bill 4936 proposes. If you'd bothered to check, all existing claims are grandfathered for life. Don't worry, your great grandchildren will still be forced to pay for your care even if they are reduced to living in their cars because they have nothing left.
    Nobody knows what is really in the bill....they can chage it as they vote on it.....that is why leave it have a bad mom had MS and my farther went broke and my mom was in a nursing home for 17 years....and the tax payers paid for will pay higher taxes and ins. if this bill goes threw.
    You get married u get married for better or never know what will happen in life.
    If your wife was covered under no fault you be talking different....besides we paid for the benfits when we bought are ins.....and the attendant care will change as it is wrote as of now so you should do some more reading on it yourself.

  6. #26

    Existing recipients of MCCA NOT grandfathered

    Go here and look at 11-7-2011 version of the bill.

  7. #27
    dtyler...the word indemnification scares it means am not sure legal wise.....• A court can render an indemnification clause unenforceable or limit its interpretation for a variety of reasons including a lack of clarity or definiteness and unconscionablity. Indemnification clauses are usually unenforceable if they involve illegal subject matter.

    • It is important to review all contracts carefully to confirm that they do not contain any surprises and if a contract contains a hold harmless clause, people should make sure that they understand when and how the clause may apply

    As I read it....The current Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association (MCCA), which currently
    pays medical and rehabilitation claims once they exceed $500,000, would be
    divided into two accounts: (1) the MCCA Account, which would only apply to
    losses attributable to accidents before July 1, 2012; and (2) an Excess PIP
    Account, which would apply to losses attributable to accidents on or after July 1,
    2012. Each account would be self-supporting and assets and liabilities could not
    be transferred between them.
    So I take it if you were hurt before July 1 2012 you would still be covered.....right?
    But at the new.
    The fee schedule used in the Workers' Compensation system would be applied to
    payments made by auto insurers to physicians, hospitals, and other providers
    treating an injured person or providing rehabilitation. (The fee schedule would
    not apply to emergency medical services provided by ambulance operations.)
    Well Michigan destroyed The Workers Compensation system like 10 or 12 yeras ago.
    You my as well be on medicaid as on Worker Compensation now as I know a few who lost eveything and are in nursing homes now.
    Worker Compensation used to be as good as no fault is now.
    So we still are gona pay the same for pip for the 500,000 plus pay for 2 MCCA which will still cost us about the same as we pay now .....but loose all our great benfits.

    And don't forget no fault is 15 to 20 billion in the good as it is.

    Why mess with something that works.

    What a deal huh.....LEAVE NO FAULT ALONE.

    Only one who is gona "win win win" is the insurance companys.

    Dtyler since this is your first post maybe you no more about it then me by a lot.

    Give use more info if you have any.....thanks.....Art

    Am tired....more like 14 to 28 billion in the good.
    Last edited by Art454; 12-17-2011 at 06:08 PM. Reason: more info

  8. #28
    HB 4936 (H-2) would amend the Insurance Code of 1956 and institute a series of
    Personal Injury Protection (PIP) limits for insured persons. The minimum and default PIP
    limit would be set at $500,000. Insurance customers could also purchase PIP limits of
    $1,000,000 or $5,000,000. Any medical or other expenses above the insurance customer's
    PIP limit incurred by the injured person would not be covered through vehicle insurance
    (neither by individual insurance providers or the MCCA).

    There is so much double talk on this bill i'll take it by which other people say that.... Existing recipients of MCCA NOT grandfathered.

    So what do others think?

    I think we would lose everything under this new bill as it is now from all info I could find.

    What other Michiganer think?


  9. #29
    Senior Member medic1's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
    New London, WI USA

    Spoke to my Lawyer about this bill

    I just spoke with my lawyer who does nothing but auto insurance claims for michigan. He doesnt even know everything contained in the bill or all the changes. That said, he felt that with everything that he head and read, those who had been injured previous to the bill passing, will be coverd. Of course this is his opinion. Also, he had explained how the no fault would probably change to allow a person to choose the coverage they wanted for a catastrophic claim. I think this will be a mistake. Everyone always assumes that things would not happen to them and will always choose the lowest possible plan.(Maybe not always but most the time) I think there will be a huge difference, poor people will choose the low cost plan, I will bet you they will all suffer. They will have no ins. to cover the injuries and expenses and will fall on the system to be taken care of. This will over run already stressed programs even more, all because they tried to save a buck in the begining. I think that if there is a choice on coverage, every single person getting ins. needs to be sat down and shown what would happen with an accident. Show them how quickly a $50,000 policy will be blown through. Spinal Cord Injuries easily eat through that 1,000,000 quickly. I think they should see what things cost medically and all the possibilities of what will not be covered and that they will more than likely end up in a nursing home and dependant on soc sec and medicare to be taken care of. People just dont understand. Heck I dont understand.

  10. #30
    I still think someone wants all that money in the MCCA fund.

    And screw anybody it takes to get it....which by the

    ............We The People Of Michigan......

    Why won't the MCCA show transparency....what do they have to hide?

    We The People voted no in 92 and 94.....what part of NO is not understood.

    Wish more Michiganers would get in here.

    I feel like am fighting the fight by myself.....say anything that comes into your mind.


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