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Thread: Embryonic stem cell research disregards the lives of the living

  1. #31
    Senior Member alan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Baltimore, MD
    Do we have any evidence that all is being focused on ESC, or is it simply getting the most attention from the media, politicians, and the public because it's controversial?

  2. #32
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Wisconsin USA
    "We as consumers need a "Cure Summit." Perhaps hosted by the CR Foundation, the Miami Project, and Rutgers. Have live video and audio feeds...a type of "town hall meeting" wherein researchers, funders and consumers are brought together to discuss the state of research, funding, and responsiveness to consumer needs. Establish goals, objectives, and clear timelines as defined by consumers to measure success. And then use this platform to generate the necessary legislation, public and private funding, and public education to bring that timeline into a reality."

    I am using Lars' proposition here because it's well put, been repeated before in one form or another by many and Lars has an understanding and forgiving nature because this is not a flame on him.

    So what are you going to do about it, my friend? This is the only kudo I can give Jim Kelly and that is he doesn't ask for a vote, doesn't draft plans, doesn't consult others. He just goes out and does it. His "it" may be a horse rear end's droppings but he does do "it".

    How does anyone here know that Christopher Reeve knows anymore about the state of science than someone here who takes the time to look up phone numbers and call researchers? It appears to me that too many put researchers, doctors and scientists on pedestals that are freshly painted daily to keep the riff raff at bay. Researchers are just like you and me EVERYONE! OK, smarter in many areas maybe but most make up for that by not knowing how to dress. Got a computer? Know what a search engine is? Good. Look up your nearest university and start looking under the departments of Biology, Micro-biology, Neuroscience, Veterinary Science, etc. Then start calling and emailing and ask if they do work at any level, basic or animal on spinal cords or paralysis. Then arrange a tour. Most of these researchers never meet someone who depends on their work. So make one see how important their job is. But a face on it. And quit, please for the sake of my sanity, asking for others permission to get started! Damn, that vacation was way too short.

    "Cure 2006. Has a nice ring to it."

    Yes it does Lars! Sure beats that blathering Jim does.

    Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."

  3. #33
    I am with Alan. Any talk about ESC research in the U.S. is just because it is a political hot potato. There are no funds being diverted from other research for ESC research and there will not be in the future. The debate going forward is very simple: are we going to make it illegal for the private-sector or any citizen to choose what they want to support or are we going to ban ESC totally?

    I personally want to be able to choose what I support. And maybe it will take 20 years to produce results with regard to ESC therapies, but maybe it won't. The medical community are producing results faster than ever before (still too slow for me), but what if therapies are available in 3 years or 5 years?

    I really don't care what everyone else supports, as long as they don't limit the choices of others.

    I don't think Mr. Kelly realizes the precedent he is trying to set. What if I did not believe 0EG were worth pursuing, should I began a letter-writing campaign to stop this funding (based on my economics training from Mississippi State)?

  4. #34

    I somehow

    have this mental image of Mr. Kelly pointing a smoking gun at his own head.

    "Life is about how you
    respond to not only the
    challenges you're dealt but
    the challenges you seek...If
    you have no goals, no
    mountains to climb, your
    soul dies".~Liz Fordred

  5. #35
    For all of those who believe James Kelly when he says that valuable funds are being diverted from other avenues of research to support ESC research, please remember that this a fallacy. James has never provided evidence to support this allegation.

    Originally posted by Dr. Young:

    1. The U.S. government has not, is not, and in all likelihood will not be funding human cloning research in the near future. The whole issue of diverting funds from spinal cord injury research is therefore bogus. No diversion of funds from spinal cord injury research has happened, is happening, or is likely to happen. Jim is arguing for criminalizing somatic nuclear transfer based on a false premise.

    If James Kelly truly cared about promoting ASC research, he'd be lobbying for more funding there, or at the very least, he'd ask his conservative Republican friends (the ones footing the bill for his anti-esc engagements) to pull their weight to get the NIH to increase funding for SCI research.

    [This message was edited by seneca on Nov 19, 2002 at 12:34 AM.]

  6. #36
    Bumping up because I would like Mr. Kelly to answer my questions.

  7. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Granbury, Texas, USA
    Ann, Ann, Ann...sigh!

    I've tried to politely suggest that "Jim Kelly" is not the subject of this thread. I'd be very happy to discuss anything relevant to the topics posted above.

    Btw, I don't appreciate your publicly putting quotes around statements that I didn't make to discredit those I did.

    James Kelly

  8. #38
    Jim, Jim, Jim.....sigh....

    You wrote in your post above:
    What better way can they protect profits gained from selling drugs or treatments that only treat conditions, which adult stem cells or other non-embryonic avenues are likely to cure, THAN TO SUPPORT THE DIVERSION OF RESOURSES towards avenues that offer no immediate threat and only a very uncertain future threat? The same course of action protects their product pipeline.
    Please Jim. Since you have had "economic training" at Penn State, please... Jim, supply us with the data you have gathered that supports your views as to the diversion of funds that you listed above in your post. This thread does concern you Jim. And it concerns the accuracy and evidence for what you say. All I am doing is questioning your data and where you got it.

    And, PLEASE, Jim, won't you tell us what groups are financing your travels around the country? If you are going to continually spout off on this forum, then I would like to know if your are operating indenpendently or being backed by some right wing groups. Who sponsors you has everything to do with this thread. Your audience has a right to know who is backing you and how much money and perks you are recieving for your efforts.

  9. #39
    Sue Pendleton wrote:

    "I am using Lars' proposition here because it's well put, been repeated before in one form or another by many and Lars has an understanding and forgiving nature because this is not a flame on him.

    So what are you going to do about it, my friend? This is the only kudo I can give Jim Kelly and that is he doesn't ask for a vote, doesn't draft plans, doesn't consult others. He just goes out and does it. His "it" may be a horse rear end's droppings but he does do "it"."

    Sue, let's keep that understanding and forgiving nature stuff under our hat. That's the kind of charge that can kill my career.

    What am I going to do about...issuing me a challenge aye?...see my post on a Cure Summit. Dr. Y is checking on resources and we need to discuss forum, agenda, other....

    While I appreciate Sue's point...that we all need to take responsibility for our own knowledge...some of us have too many things going on to gather, decipher and choose among the myriad of options of where to direct our dollars.

    This Cure Summit will be directed...I think for the first peeps. It will be an opportunity to hear what is going on in layman's terms. It will be an opportunity for us to look at the research landscape and have a voice that says..."I want you to prioritize this."

    We'll have an opportunity to speak with researchers and funders about connecting their priorities with ours.

    Then we can look at current and proposed legislation to see if those efforts are consistent with our priorities and if not how can we correct that. We can put together a platform of meaningful legislative goals that we can focus on in a more efficient and effective manner.

    How great would it be to have a coherent, comprehensive legislative agenda that we could unleash the likes of vgrafen, DA, and debbie7 on??? Grassroots baby...that's what we're talking about...'cause that's what it is going to take.

    We need much of it as we can get. Someone has posted here that they spoke with CR about ongoing research, to which he alledgedly replied that there were things going on that he could't talk about yet. Well why for all the pennys in heaven not???? For crying in the rain why doesn't everyone have that info? this connotes rivalry, territorialism, and competiveness at the research level hich may be restricting advances. If this is the case than we need to get it out in the open and deal with it. If it isn't...then to heck with the secrecy and let's hear what CR is hearing.

    James may be a horse's patoot...I don't know...I never met the guy. But he is right, at least in part, on one point. Now I only have a minor in econ to go with my finance degree (from Univ. of MT.....GO GRIZ!!!), but it doesn't take a PHD to know that there is a limited amount of resources...and we need to ensure those resources are being properly directed according to OUR priorities.

    Now everyone needs to take ownership in this and get on the Cure Summit thread and start offering up agenda items and whatever other helpful info you can.

    Cure 2006!!!

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Manassas,Va. USA

    It wouldn't seem at the moment

    that alot of funds are used for the research into ESCs.So I'd like more info. on that. Maybe you could tell us if you know DR. Young. I was under the impression that because of the law the way it is makes it illegal for Gov. moneys to be used for research into ESC except for the few lines of cells already being worked with.But it would seem logical to presume that moneys might be given from Companys and individuals toward this research that might be happening in other parts of the world. Correct me if I'm wrong.If thats the case then Jims point on that should be worth noting. And Sue what if Jim is right.Then we are losing major funds and time to useless research that might has more problems then its worth.As most of already know I have a major problem with the ESC research for ethical reasons.And sorry for sounding so simplistic but I just think God has something better then messing around with essence of that which is made in His Image.

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