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Thread: A Word from Dr. Lima

  1. #11
    Member Al Bundy's Avatar
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    "This sounds like a job for Superman!"

    "This sounds like a job for Superman!"

    Allen Krupar
    e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
    web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm

  2. #12
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    Hello Dogger:

    I will be happy to share my understanding of the differences between Olfactory Mucosa and OEGs, although I am not "a highly trained research advocate." I apologize if I've presented myself as such, because it simply isn't true, and the result of doing so would only hurt my effectiveness in promoting cures for us all. However, neither do I apologize for doing my best to understand and make sense of the many issues that stand between my present condition and being cured...and doing my best to promote The Cure based on this understanding. Many others, including Will, Sue, Allen, Mike, David, Paul, etc., are doing the same and more! Perhaps our combined efforts will lead to success? I hope so!

    Olfactory Mucosa is a tissue sample made up of many cell types, including several with regenerative potentials...with OEGs among them. OEGs, on the other hand, are a single cell type, or class of cells (OEGs may be harvested from several sources). OEGs reportedly promote axon growth under certain circumstances and remyelination. However, in addition to providing a source of OEGs, a neural stem cell, and two progenitor cells, the mucosa itself apparently acts as an extracellular scaffolding able to integrate with injured spinal stumps (the exposed ends of broken axons) and support axon growth either initiated by OEGs, or by growth factors secreted by the mucosa's stem cells or progenitors. Also, since Olfactory Mucosa supplies a neural stem cell type and two neural progenitors, it has a potential to replace neurons that OEGs by themselves can't offer. And finally, the following papers claim the olfactory system retains the ability to regenerate at a robust embryonic rate throughout the adult life. Their authors attribute this ability to the combined effect of the mucosa's stem cells, progenitors, and OEGs.

    Possibly for some applications OEGs-only might be more effective than mucosa implantaion (for remyelinating MS-damaged cords once the cause of disease is removed, for example). And for others Olfactory Mucosa might be preferred. But the two should not be confused.

    Here's what I base this opinion on.

    Lu J, Feron F, Mackay-Sim A, Waite PM. Olfactory ensheathing cells promote locomotor recovery after delayed transplantation into transected spinal cord. Brain. 2002 Jan;

    Perry C, Mackay-Sim A, Feron F, McGrath J. Olfactory neural cells: an untapped diagnostic and therapeutic resource. The 2000 Ogura Lecture. Laryngoscope. 2002 Apr;

    Roisen FJ, Klueber KM, Lu CL, Hatcher LM, Dozier A, Shields CB, Maguire S. Adult human olfactory stem cells. Brain Res. 2001 Jan 26;

    Sacerdote de Lustig E, Josiowicz AD. [Olfactory mucosa: a continuous source of neurons] Medicina (B Aires). 2001;61(5 Pt 1):

    Calof AL, Mumm JS, Rim PC, Shou J. The neuronal stem cell of the olfactory epithelium. J Neurobiol. 1998 Aug;36(2):190-205.

    Huard JM, Youngentob SL, Goldstein BJ, Luskin MB, Schwob JE. Adult olfactory epithelium contains multipotent progenitors that give rise to neurons and non-neural cells. J Comp Neurol. 1998 Nov 2;

    Sicard G, Feron F, Andrieu JL, Holley A, Mackay-Sim A. Generation of neurons from a nonneuronal precursor in adult olfactory epithelium in vitro. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1998 Nov 30;

    Goldstein BJ, Fang H, Youngentob SL, Schwob JE. Transplantation of multipotent progenitors from the adult olfactory epithelium. Neuroreport. 1998 May 11;

    Feron F, Mackay-Sim A, Andrieu JL, Matthaei KI, Holley A, Sicard G. Stress induces neurogenesis in non-neuronal cell cultures of adult olfactory epithelium. Neuroscience. 1999 Jan;88(2)

    Zehntner SP, Mackay-Sim A, Bushell GR. Differentiation in an olfactory cell line. Analysis via differential display. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1998 Nov 30;

    Lu J, Ashwell K. Olfactory ensheathing cells: their potential use for repairing the injured spinal cord. Spine. 2002 Apr 15;27(8):

    Calof AL, Bonnin A, Crocker C, Kawauchi S, Murray RC, Shou J, Wu HH.
    Progenitor cells of the olfactory receptor neuron lineage. Microsc Res Tech. 2002 Aug 1;

    Bartolomei JC, Greer CA. Olfactory ensheathing cells: bridging the gap in spinal cord injury. Neurosurgery. 2000 Nov;47(5):

    James Kelly

    [This message was edited by James Kelly on Oct 28, 2002 at 07:12 PM.]

  3. #13
    Is anyone able to attend Dr. Lima's conference?


    Doreen

  4. #14
    Member Al Bundy's Avatar
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    Dr. Young, OEG Therapy Costs?

    Doc,

    What do you guesstimate OEG therapy would cost (including rehabilitation)? I think I saw you post a number of around $50,000 for the transplantation procedure. Does that include all the doctor's fees and a hospital stay? How much would you guess the rehabilitation would cost?

    Allen Krupar
    e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
    web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm

  5. #15
    Senior Member giambjj's Avatar
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    Dr.Lima's lecture

    If I knew the time and place I would attend, take notes, and post them here.

    JJG

  6. #16
    Senior Member mk99's Avatar
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    In another thread, Jeff wrote that people seem to be recovering TOO FAST after having this procedure done and therefore the effects are unlikely to be actual regeneration.

    Besides re-myelination I have another theory. Just as some axons almost always remain after injury, (even complete), I suspect that not ALL motor below injury and not ALL sensory above injury actually die. When axons have grown through a small cavity, (ie: 2-3cm) they may very well be re-integrating themselves with original neurons on the other side which are still alive.

    Is this plausible?

  7. #17
    Allen, the $50K figure is just a rough guess. Remember that the nasal mucosal transplant involves two surgeries (the nose and the spinal cord). If it is done in one sitting, I imagine that the surgery could be done for as little as $5000, if the surgeon donates his/her time. However, if it involves two separate surgeries, it will cost $10,000 or more. If the person is hospitalized for 20 days, to get antibiotics and other treatments, at say $500 per day, this may add $10,000 to the cost. MRI's and other tests may cost as much as $10,000. Then there are the followup studies for 12 or more months, as well as rehabilitation that may add to the cost. Finally, there are many ancillary costs. For example, there will be expenses for a coordinator, database, lawyers, insurance, and other bureaucractic paperwork. So, $50K is not far-fetched. Wise.

  8. #18
    Member Al Bundy's Avatar
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    Dr. Lima's Lectures/Seminars

    I just did a quick scan of the Detroit Medical Center's website and the UAB -- I didn't find anything about Dr. Lima's visit. Somebody should write to him and ask if he will be passing out any materials. You can also try Dr. Peduzzi. But, just to give you fair warning, Dr. Lima was upset when I quoted him on the petition website. I could've swore I asked him for "a statement", but he didn't understand it that way.

    Here is Dr. Peduzzi's e-mail:peduzzi@vision.vsrc.uab.edu

    The rehabilitation Institute of Michigan has a 1800 number: 1-800-649-3777

    Allen Krupar
    e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
    web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm

  9. #19
    Member Al Bundy's Avatar
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    Testing testing

    Testing testing

    e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
    web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm
    See You On the Dark Side of the Moon

  10. #20
    Member Al Bundy's Avatar
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    Testing testing

    Testing testing

    Allen Krupar
    e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
    web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm
    See You On the Dark Side of the Moon

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