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Thread: Live from Working 2 Walk 2011!

  1. #121
    That's 2015 Kate's blog reporting the presentation of Dalton Dietrich:

    He’s from the Miami Project, which has a mission to discover and test new therapies that will improve function and quality of life issues in people living with paralysis. It used to be all about sci, but has expanded to include paralysis with other causes (stroke, ms, etc)
    They run a bench to bedside/bedside back to bench research program that includes work with mice, rats, pigs, and non-human primates.
    (He’s a super fast-talker, people . . . be sure to look at the video of this one if you want the full picture.) I’m letting him run through the basic intro slides, which are about things not that interesting to most of us — old approaches, acute interventions, like hypothermia.
    For those who don’t know, that means cooling the body of the injured person within hours of the injury; it seems to be very safe and fairly effective in changing almost half of the ASIA A patients to a better outcome. There’s a major study underway right now. Other strategies for acute injuries include riluzole, minocycline, neither of which seem to work as well as cooling . . . another one is cethrin, also in trials right now.
    On to regeneration: there are various helper cells: schwann cells, OECs, astrocytes, macrophages, genetically engineered cells like fibroblasts and schwann cells, stem cells including fetal, embryonic, adult, etc.
    Why Schwann Cells? They promote regeneration of axons, they produce growth factors, they myelinate axons, they restore conduction, they enter the cord in big numbers, they’re already in your body . . . right now there are 6 FDA approved clinical trials being run out of the Miami Project, including Schwann cell transplantation for subacutes.
    Wow, such a fast talker — I’m sitting here wishing he’d have chosen to talk only about CHRONIC injury intervention and done so at a reasonable pace.
    Boot camp for chronics, with a goal of getting people conditioned. It includes body weight supported training and then injection of Schwann cells.
    They’re building a $130 million hospital right next to the project . . . they’ve started a neuro-engineering department, led by Monica Perez.
    Talking about using Deep Brain Stimulation to target neuropathic pain. Done two patients, and both of them are getting relief. THAT’S BIG NEWS TO ME. Where can we learn more about this, please?
    He invites questions and communication! write to him at ddietrich@miami.edu
    Q: You have a lot of things planned and ongoing for acutes and subacutes. What drives an organization like yours to spend so much time and money and energy on acutes instead of chronics?
    A: If you look at those 25 trials I mentioned on that last slide, we’re looking at all kinds of things for chronics. (Names a few things)
    Q: (same person) no, no, no . . . we’re always told when we ask that things are being studied for chronics, it’s like, someone is doing a psychological study to find out how you are feeling! We want to get up.
    A: I hear you loud and clear. Keep in mind that we can learn from these studies. We can only do what the FDA permits, and that often does mean — as in the case of Schwann cells — they wanted us to do acutes only at first.

    Q: It’s very important to keep a balance, though. There’s a big imbalance in how much of your work is aimed at acutes v. chronics! There are no acutes in this room, are there? I’m not saying you shouldn’t do that work at all, but you might have a better balance between acutes and chronics.
    A: I think if you go into emergency rooms you’ll see plenty of acutes . . . Thank you very much.
    Q: About chronics getting Schwann cells & procedure vis a vis surgery & rehab
    A: We’re using technology developed in other trials to do the surgery, are adding more cells to the chronics as we demonstrate safety, and yes, for chronics there’s a very serious rehab to maximize return.
    Q: Are you collaborating with others across the planet?
    A: Yes.
    Q: How close are you to developing a cell that you think will work?
    A: Schwann cells could work (for a variety of reasons). I think we’re getting close. Some people are showing robust regeneration but it’s not leading to functional improvement. We’re working with StemCellsInc and Neurostem on their programs, because we’re going to need industry.
    Q: What’s the main mechanism you expect from Schwann cells?
    A: Remyelination, plus growth factors. Creating a more permissive environment by addressing inhibitory molecules . . .

    https://liveblogw2w15.wordpress.com
    Last edited by paolocipolla; 09-28-2015 at 05:47 PM.
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  2. #122
    Is this progress?
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    Is this progress?
    "I think if you go into emergency rooms you?ll see plenty of acutes . . . Thank you very much."
    Someone should have rolled up there and punched him in the marbles.

  4. #124
    It seems like bad taste and in a way, cruel, for U2FP to invite guest speakers to come and present about acute therapies that are 100% irrelevant to the audience. Especially when most of the SCI audience can't comprehend that these acute therapies will not work on them.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by #LHB# View Post
    "I think if you go into emergency rooms you?ll see plenty of acutes . . . Thank you very much."
    Someone should have rolled up there and punched him in the marbles.
    It takes balls to go to a conference of chronic injured SCI to present about acute only therapies. He shouldn't have accepted the opportunity to present.

  6. #126
    I agree with Nowhere Man & #LBH# - bad taste and cruel but I think more important is the point Paolo was making - 4 years later and the exact same shit is be said. The argument from 2011 that goes 'we'll work on acute first, then move to chronic' just doesn't hold weight when exactly the same thing is being said 4 years later. Nevermind the fact that acute and chronic therapies are two different kettles of fish. I agree with Paolo; it's no progress at all. From the Kate's blog (which is excellent) the part where he says something along the lies of 'go to an ER and see plenty of acutes' - I wonder how this went down in the room?
    Grammy, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this (once you've recovered!)

  7. #127
    It is not progress in a visible way for any chronic injuries. The somewhat sad reality is the research tends to focus on acute injuries. I see multiple factors influencing this. The belief by many researchers that that is where they can first open the door, the belief ( right or wrong ) that is has a better chance for success, the theory that neuroprotective interventions are best in the first days after injury, the FDA leans toward these thoughts and that so far that is where the funding has sought trials.
    To move the bar toward chronic injury will take dollars AND a larger voice than I have witnessed in 40 plus years. Even though Miami Project hasn't put a treatment out for chronic injuries I know from face to face meetings that Marc has no desire to be in a chair any more than anybody in this group.
    Why we gripe about the efforts of others is something I don't understand.

  8. #128
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    To echo above, in Kate's write-up, Dr Dietrich does explain that the FDA wants it this way ... to concentrate on acutes first. His entire presentation was rubbish. His question and answer period was Donald-Trump-level-ass.

    Whomever thought to invite the NIH rep, was completely on fleek! Maybe someone from the FDA next year.

    A quote that interested me:

    This from Gregoire - possible wireless with brain implant later on - but into monkey testing now:
    "An injured monkey (lateral hemisection) after 5 days post with this technology can walk. Gregoire says that when he saw this he wept."

    After reading more - stem cells are a pipe dream that is way off. Kudos to the researchers making it happen but there will have to be generations built on their base knowledge. We won't see this apply in our lifetime.

    Just my opinion - but the Alfors stuff was rubbish. We've seen scams from Russia before and I think this is just more blow-hard BS from a corrupt country. Just my opinion though. The first part had warnings that it wasn't to be shared ... grandstander.

    I can't want for video of Gregoire ... but nothing else stuck out for me. Another year of waiting. Kudos to the people that put this together year after year and for having enough hope for the rest of us to keep doing it.
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    To echo above, in Kate's write-up, Dr Dietrich does explain that the FDA wants it this way ... to concentrate on acutes first. His entire presentation was rubbish. His question and answer period was Donald-Trump-level-ass.

    Whomever thought to invite the NIH rep, was completely on fleek! Maybe someone from the FDA next year.

    A quote that interested me:

    This from Gregoire - possible wireless with brain implant later on - but into monkey testing now:
    "An injured monkey (lateral hemisection) after 5 days post with this technology can walk. Gregoire says that when he saw this he wept."

    After reading more - stem cells are a pipe dream that is way off. Kudos to the researchers making it happen but there will have to be generations built on their base knowledge. We won't see this apply in our lifetime.

    Just my opinion - but the Alfors stuff was rubbish. We've seen scams from Russia before and I think this is just more blow-hard BS from a corrupt country. Just my opinion though. The first part had warnings that it wasn't to be shared ... grandstander.

    I can't want for video of Gregoire ... but nothing else stuck out for me. Another year of waiting. Kudos to the people that put this together year after year and for having enough hope for the rest of us to keep doing it.
    "Donald-Trump-level-ass" I think is a good definition. LIKE!

    If you look carefully at Kate's Blog you will see that there was a presentation from the NIH and one from the FDA.

    Then I think you are getting too excited from Courtine's work, could it be because he has a french accent? LOL!

    I also agree about Ahlfors..
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  10. #130
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Thanks Paolo re FDA .. I'll have to go back and read more thoroughly as I just skimmed it quickly this morning.

    Cortine = french accent hotness that is certainly packing below the waist (oh gosh I'm so sorry for being rude ... not really, lol).

    Paolo it's difficult to look at the five (now) people that have had the stim experience and not get excited or hopeful. What is your fear? That other biological attempts at regeneration will cease?

    I was sorry that Jerry Silver didn't have an update ... I assume that is why he wasn't there this year.

    Funny to read the old stuff from above in 2011 and see Dr Davies mentioned. He dropped off of the radar quite fast! I always found it funny that he wore a huge belt buckle like a real Texan ... and he left 'town' like a real cowboy with a bounty on his head. Wonder where he is and what he is doing now?

    Eye on the Prize: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp8w...WChvNfCJqOXct1
    Last edited by lynnifer; 09-29-2015 at 11:48 AM.
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

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