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Thread: reno air races, deaths and flutter

  1. #1

    reno air races, deaths and flutter

    among the dead, a person in a wheelchair. the owner and pilot of that airplane made major structural changes to increase his speed. unf., he neither tested these changes or considered flutter. no doubt in my mind, flutter on the trim tab brought this down. he was unconscious from the 11g vertical maneuver.

    my heart goes out to everybody, but esp. the guy in w/c. that family hit hard w/2 other sons w/md.

  2. #2
    Cass I hear you on that I've been thinking about that airshow horror story it is upsetting .

  3. #3
    michael wogan.

    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...-out-9-20-2011

    this should never have happened. i've been to reno air races. those guys allowed to modify planes, like the pilot did in this case, w/o regulation, testing, etc. don't talk to me about caster "flutter" again. THIS is flutter. i spent yrs analyzing flutter. it makes me sick. flutter kills. isn't a minor inconvenience on a damn w/c.
    Last edited by cass; 09-24-2011 at 03:13 AM.

  4. #4
    Very Sad I watched that video stream

  5. #5
    My husband commented on how the wings had been made shorter and wondered it this contributed to the malfuction. Is that what you are talking about Cass?
    What a horrible thing to happen. I can see why it disturbs you knowing what you do.

  6. #6
    How do you know major structural changes were made to the plane?
    How do you know he didn't test them?
    How do you know he was unconscious?
    How do you know it was an 11g maneuver?
    P51's are well know to have flutter on one of their control surfaces, but not the elevator.
    One of the mods they do to P51's is to fix the offending control surface.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by baldfatdad View Post
    How do you know major structural changes were made to the plane?
    How do you know he didn't test them?
    How do you know he was unconscious?
    How do you know it was an 11g maneuver?
    P51's are well know to have flutter on one of their control surfaces, but not the elevator.
    One of the mods they do to P51's is to fix the offending control surface.
    his interviews. the picture of the empty cockpit just prior to impact. the picture of the separated trim tab (not the elevator, the elevator trim tab). i could go on.

    e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fent9Qa0clk
    Last edited by cass; 09-24-2011 at 11:30 PM.

  8. #8
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    These are highly modified planes are going around a short course at near 700 feet per second frequently less than a 100 feet from the ground. Air races and air shows have a long history of spectator death. Attendance is a choice the spectators make.

    I hope the accusations listed above can be attributed to the heat of the moment. It was terrible thing for everyone involved, the fellow in the wheelchair, all of the others, the people who were not killed but maimed, but also the pilot and his kith and ken.
    There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are NO old bold pilots. Jimmy Leeward was 74 years old. He did a lot of "dangerous" flying over his life, but he did not achieve 74 years behaving like a fool.

    The preliminary NTSB report is here http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...17X22412&key=1 A final report will appear after several months.
    T4 complete, 150 ft fall, 1966. Completely fused hips, partially fused knees and spine, heterotopic ossification. Unsuccessful DREZ surgery about 1990. Successful bladder augmentation using small intestine about 1992. Normal SCI IC UTI problems culminating in a hospital stay in 2001. No antibiotics or doctor visits for UTI since 2001: d-mannose. Your mileage may vary.

  9. #9
    show me that long history. specifically, spectator deaths at reno. i'll save you the trouble. these are the first at reno since instituted in 1964. i'll save you more trouble. i don't believe there has been a spectator death at any air show in the usa in decades.

    and that old bold adage is really old. especially amongst pilots.

    btw, only accusations made by me were against the regulations.
    Last edited by cass; 09-25-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  10. #10
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    You are correct in saying there have been zero spectator deaths in the US for many decades. The FAA and NTSB has done a remarkable job of making airshows / races safe for spectators.

    I apologize for my misstatements. Guess I had Sknliv and Ramstein in mind.

    I think what was disturbing to me was the first post "... pilot of that airplane made major structural changes to increase his speed. unf., he neither tested these changes or considered flutter. .... he was unconscious from the 11g vertical maneuver."

    Leaving aside the fact that it is an air race and every team there made major structural modifications to their aircraft to increase speed, I missed any verification of the other statements as well as any reference to "regulations."

    Sorry to hear that old and bold is out of fashion. My first memory is being in a spin in a Taylorcraft float plane piloted by my dad. That was 65 years ago, so I am a dated creature for sure.
    T4 complete, 150 ft fall, 1966. Completely fused hips, partially fused knees and spine, heterotopic ossification. Unsuccessful DREZ surgery about 1990. Successful bladder augmentation using small intestine about 1992. Normal SCI IC UTI problems culminating in a hospital stay in 2001. No antibiotics or doctor visits for UTI since 2001: d-mannose. Your mileage may vary.

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