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  • I did not get more functional recovery 3 or more years after injury.

    68 46.90%
  • I had a "complete" spinal cord injury at 24 hours and had no voluntary movement or sensation more than 2 segments below the injury site but recovered additional motor and/or sensory function 3 or more years after injury

    19 13.10%
  • I was an ASIA A at 24 hours and recovered additional function 3 or more years after injury

    29 20.00%
  • I was ASIA B at 24 hours and recovered additional function 3 or more years after injury

    22 15.17%
  • I was ASIA C at 24 hours and recovered additional function 3 or more years after injury

    7 4.83%
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Thread: Do people who were ASIA A, B, C at 24 hours after injury recover function 3 or more years after injury?

  1. #41
    sherman,

    First, the prognosis for recovery with ASIA A is defined only for spinal cord injuries above the conus. You are correct to apply the same prediction from traumatic spinal cord injury to people with AVMs, conus, or cauda equina lesions.

    Second, the prognosis for recovery with ASIA A is not as bad it is suggested to be. I don't know your cousin but what does he know? Has he followed up on the patients for long term? Do you really mean to say that you would rather believe your cousin than other people describe?

    According to this poll, 24% of the people on this site with so-called "complete" spinal cord injury recovered additional motor and sensory function 3 or more years after injury. While that recovery may not be enough, it is not nothing.

    Christopher Reeve is a documented "complete" (ASIA A) spinal cord injury and he recovered sensation in over 75% of his body and he is able to move some muscles on all four limbs. He went from an ASIA A to an ASIA C. I don't think that it is as rare as it is suggested to be.

    Wise.

  2. #42
    However, 48% did not get any recovery 3 years after injury - that's quite a high percentage (and I'm one of them)

  3. #43
    My surgeon wanted to classify me as a complete c4/5/6 being my bones were crushed/shattered, and damage was so bad etc...but there was still a lil intact so i was classified as incomcomplete. 15.4 years later i'm still gaining significant miraculous returns. Merry christmas!

    --fast

    ps. what can my surgeons, nurses, ot, pt, aids, rec therapist which tried robbing all my hope? Look at me and my un-realism now! What can they all kiss?

  4. #44
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    Originally posted by Wise Young:

    Faye,

    An ASIA B (sensory present but motor absent) can occur in spinal cord injury that because sensory and motor tracts are partly segregated anatomically in the spinal cord. In the brainstem, motor and sensory pathways are intermingled.

    Wise.
    Sensory present, but motor absent as in (ASIA B) commonly occurs in ischaemia in the Pons from injury or stroke. Since the cranial nerves are also damaged and there is resulting loss of speech, damage in the Pons leads to the classical case of Locked In Syndrome.
    Here it seems the motor and sensory pathways are not at all intermingled, but rather quite segregated as in the spinal cord.

    Are the motor and sensory pathways in the lower and upper part of the brainstem (medulla and the mid-brain) more intermingled than in the pons?

  5. #45
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    I have some motor return, spare sensation patches, a few wiggling toes, yet due to my lack of sacral sensation, which may perhaps be the most affected part of my body, I am rendered a complete injury.
    This stigma emphasizes that through detailed analysis and follow-up of SCI patients, with no sacral sparing, any recovery is going to be severely limited, worse if bowle and bladder nerves are wiped out.
    This whole ASIA thing from the very beginning dictated that I should concentrate on upper body, since lower body was gone. The therapist at Rusk at NYU sits me down and spills the ASIA facts. This dumb broad has memerized the SCI textbook.
    Why is absence of sacral sensation so devastating for the spinal cord? I was recently told by a treadmill-harness therapist at UC-Irvine that due to this, my spinal cord was not intact. This is coming from one of those so-called progressive SCI research centers with new miraculous trials, etc, blah. So there are therapists running these trials who believe that my spinal cord is severed.

    sherman brayton

  6. #46
    Christopher Reeve is a documented "complete" (ASIA A) spinal cord injury and he recovered sensation in over 75% of his body and he is able to move some muscles on all four limbs. He went from an ASIA A to an ASIA C. I don't think that it is as rare as it is suggested to be.

    Wise.[/QUOTE]

    Dr. Young,
    I couldn't agree more. Christopher Reeve is not the first. He's just the first one that they cared to document and therefore prove that and Asia A could improve function and/or sensation. Those people in ER probably only see that acutely injured person that one time...and then probably never again. They make an assumption based on traditional minded medicine. They go to school, it could be 10 or 20 years ago, and they simply quote what their old textbook told them. The majority of the medical community sadly never keep up with recent research that should be changing what they are telling people. They never follow up on these individuals and don't have a clue rather or not any of them improved.

    Brayton,
    I just thought I'd tell you a story about something a doctor once told us. This has been over 2 years ago, so I'm sure I won't say it exactly as he did, but I'll tell it the best that I can remember.
    My husband was in rehab for 3 months after his injury. It was supposedly one of the top 10 places to go for SCI. He had a halo, so the entire time, they never showed him how to cath or do his own BP. He was sent home with the halo. Anyway a month later the halo was removed and they scheduled him to go back for outpatient therapy for 2 weeks supposedly to learn these things. After a week, things weren't going so well because my husband was going to need some special equipment to manage. He also needed more time. When he tried to explain to his doctor the problems he was having, that he was going to need more time and some equipment, the doctor said I'm sorry, but you simply don't have the hand function. I would recommend you get a colostomy. (He had recommended a super pubic previously, but my husband wanted to try to intermittent cath)Of course, my husband and I both were shaking our heads and said no to that immediately. My husband told the doctor that he had talked with one of his old patients who was a C6 and was able to cath and do his own BP and was trying to explain what this old patient had told him but the doctor simply would not listen and said Well, I'm going to be going to a conference and meeting with all of the SCI specialists. Maybe I'll hear something there that may be helpful, but your fingers simply are not able to do what is necessary. You can't comb your hair, feed yourself, tie your shoe...how are you even going to manage to zip your zipper on your pants? Well the OT told us that one. Just put a key ring on the end of the zipper. Well what was funny was my husband's hand function had greatly improved since the doctor had last seen him. He could at that very moment feed himself without a food cuff, tie a shoe (loosly) and blow dry his own hair using a wide handle brush. He told the doctor that his hands were improving and he really thought he could do it. My husband was telling the doctor of all the people with SCI that he had talked to and how they had improved, some even walking years later...The doctor said Well, I'm sorry, but we could put electrodes on you, hang you in a harness and force your legs to walk, but it isn't going to help you to walk again.He then advised my husband to accept his injury and learn to live with it.
    I'm so glad we didn't listen to this SCI specialist, who was by the way the inpatient medical director of this SCI rehab facility. In fact, before that day was over, he was no longer my husband's doctor. We scheduled an appointment with another doctor there and explained that we disagreed completely with Dr. _____osauros(dinosaur). The new doctor agreed that my husband could take care of these daily functions with more time and certain equipment. We also scheduled an appointment and discussed everything and our overall disappointment with the care, etc. with the facilities administrator.
    Probably a year later, we read a newspaper article about a teenage boy who suffered a spinal cord injury and was a quadriplegic. The article quoted his doctor, who by the way, was the one that had told my husband all of these ridiculous things. The doctor was quoted as advising the courageous young boy who believed he would one day walk again, that he should accept and learn to live with his injury.

    [This message was edited by hope2findacure on 12-26-03 at 11:03 AM.]

  7. #47
    Chris2, spinal cord injury is real and causes serious and long-lasting neurological deficits. Nobody is refuting that. What I am suggesting is that clinicians are too pessimistic concerning the prospects of recovery from spinal cord injury. May I suggest a mental exercise? Imagine for the moment that you are in the other 50% of people who are getting some recovery after spinal cord injury. How would you feel?

    Brayton, loss of sacral sensation is simply part of the definition of ASIA A. I don't know whether you are just talking to a lot of people who are wrong, don't know, or you are hearing only what you want to hear. Based on what you have posted here so far, I believe that few of the posts that I have written have reached you at all. You are convinced that you are not going to recover, you dismiss any facts that might contradict that conviction, and therefore continually come to the conclusion that there will never be a cure or treatment that would help you. I just wish that you would take a little of your incredible energy and apply it to the positive side. By the way, a lot of people here would love to have the function that you have.

    hope2findacure, I agree and am so glad that you and your husband have minds of your own. Things like what you describe hopefully will happen less and less.

    Wise.

    [This message was edited by Wise Young on 12-26-03 at 12:08 PM.]

  8. #48
    hope2findacure:
    Let me guess, the rehab was tirr? And the doctor's name either began with a d or a P? I'm guessing donova...uh, i mean dinosaur? Glad he didn't pull that doctor god mind game over on your husband! WHY do they do this to us when we are low???? Sorry to digress-Beth

    C5/6 incomplete, injured Aug. 2000

  9. #49
    Betheny,
    I'm sorry to hear there's more dinosaurs out there...but it doesn't surprise me unfortunately.
    Actually my husband went to rehab in Dallas and the name (of both place & doc) starts with a B.
    I once said if it was in the top 10 there must have only been 10.
    Hey and don't be sorry for saying what you think! I do it all the time But seriously...3 months in that place,it was necessary to be able to speak up, and it was necessary for us to educate ourselves.

  10. #50
    Wise,

    I don't know how I'd feel - more hopeful than I do, I would think. I think you're calling me selfish - I know I am - sci has made me that way.

    I've told you about the guy I met who 18 months after his injury stuck his foot out to prevent his falling from his chair - they took him back to rehab and now he walks perfectly but can't run and doesn't have normal sensation. I presume then the rehab people here take it seriously if someone says they have some recovery.


    There is something wrong with me because I'm not happy being a eunuch in a wheelchair

    [This message was edited by Chris2 on 12-26-03 at 09:18 PM.]

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