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Thread: Organogel/neurogel got problems. Dr.Woerly is moving to France!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Max's Avatar
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    Organogel/neurogel got problems. Dr.Woerly is moving to France!

    Read it here
    http://www.neurogelenmarche.org/site...ire&langue=ang

    ==============================
    "Experience teaches that, of all the emotions, fear stands alone in its power to move us, or to capture us in its grip forever. In a world of terrors, there is nothing more fearsome that the unknown...especially when what is unknown is ourselves." Outer Limits(Fear Itself)



  2. #2
    Senior Member Max's Avatar
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    Wise,

    You & CR also in epicentre of scandal

    ==============================
    "Experience teaches that, of all the emotions, fear stands alone in its power to move us, or to capture us in its grip forever. In a world of terrors, there is nothing more fearsome that the unknown...especially when what is unknown is ourselves." Outer Limits(Fear Itself)

  3. #3
    I am saddened by what was said about my role in Organogel's troubles by the neurogelenmarch.org web site. The web site suggests that I "warmly congratulated" Dr. Woerly and then attacked his work. In a 1996 meeting or perhaps even earlier (it was in the year after Christopher Reeve was injured, if my memory serves me correctly), I had indeed met and encouraged Dr. Woerly to pursue his research.

    In late 2000, in response to postings and questions on the subject on the spinewire forums, I expressed my opinion about the neurogel. I was skeptical about the "walking" video of the cat shown on the Neurogel web site and felt that more and better data were needed to show that the material regenerated the spinal cord and produced functional recovery in animals. I pointed out that axons do grow into many biomaterials, including another material called matrigel, but that the data did not show the axons exiting the neurogel and growing beyond.

    Somehow, I have become the "Sole master on board in the U.S.A.". This epithet greatly exaggerates my role and importance to the field. For the record, I also wish to state that I had no knowledge, role, or influence in any of the unfortunate business relationships that Organogel later got itself entangled with.

    Wise.

    [This message was edited by Wise Young on Sep 01, 2002 at 09:56 PM.]

  4. #4
    Senior Member Max's Avatar
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    Wise nobody here doubts your integrity as researcher & friend

    Just we need more info from all sides. Maybe Dr.Woerly could come to
    forums...

    Btw You sound like Clinton-"I had no sexual relationship with that woman"

    ==============================
    "Experience teaches that, of all the emotions, fear stands alone in its power to move us, or to capture us in its grip forever. In a world of terrors, there is nothing more fearsome that the unknown...especially when what is unknown is ourselves." Outer Limits(Fear Itself)



  5. #5
    Yes, indeed. Dr. Woerley probably did come to the site but did not respond or refute what I said. It is a pity that we don't have the original spinewire database to reconstruct what was actually posted. We have had some discussion of neurogel on this site but I don't think that I criticized neurogel in any of these discussions.


    James Kelly: Spinal cord reconstruction using NeuroGelTM implants and functional recovery after chronic injury

    X-racer: NeuroGel's effects on a rat model of chronic spinal cord injury

    Wise Young: Woerly, et al. (2001): Reconstruction of the transected spinal cord following NeuroGel implantation

    Wise Young: Woerly, et al. (2001): Spinal cord repair with PHPMA hydrogel containing RGD peptides (Neurogel)

    gpbullock: Info.

    By the way, if I do sound Clintonesque, it is because I was taken aback by the unwarranted criticism.

    Wise.

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    My opinion is if a researcher can't withstand rigorous peer review, they should figure out a new career.

    I've heard of too many half-baked therapies whose effect were exaggerated to have much sympathy for Neurogel's plight (especially the unprofessional way the arguments are being made by Neurogel, sounds like a whining child.) Plus, this seems evolution is in effect, the best therapies with smart business backing keep moving forward, while others fall by the wayside. This keeps the spinal cord research field on focus.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Max's Avatar
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    On second reading it looks pretty slanderous

    Anyway I send e-mails to Dr.Woerly & this support group, asking them
    to participate in this disscussion.

    We should always keep in mind that allegations were made not by Woerly directly
    but by his support team...

    He can always blame miscommunication

    ==============================
    "Experience teaches that, of all the emotions, fear stands alone in its power to move us, or to capture us in its grip forever. In a world of terrors, there is nothing more fearsome that the unknown...especially when what is unknown is ourselves." Outer Limits(Fear Itself)



  8. #8
    Senior Member bill j.'s Avatar
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    The comments about Dr. Young sound suspiciously like Jim Kelly's. They are an exact echo of Kelly's many-times expressed sentiments. And they twist and distort just as Kelly has done so many times in the past. My guess is Kelly was instrumental in organizing and helping to write this attack on Dr. Young.

    It is not uncommon for scientists to be critical of each others work, especially at scientific conferences. Most of the time such criticizm is welcome as it helps to uncover flaws in experiments and advances the field research more rapidly than it would otherwise advance. Dr.Woerly could have very easily come to the Cando Forum to present data or correct any errors of Dr.Young's interpertation.

    Before Dr. Woerly moves to clinical trials, his work should be replicated by an independent lab. Until replication occurrs, there is just a lot of smoke being blown.

    One thing the Nureogel web site does though, is point out the frustration of lack of funding for sci research. Dr. Woerly is far from being alone in having a dearth of funding dollars.

    [This message was edited by Bill J. on Sep 02, 2002 at 12:19 PM.]

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    Bill Johnson, paralysis below the neck is no excuse for paralysis above it.

    I have not had any contact with Dr. Woerly for at least several months, nor did I know of this issue until a few minutes ago (when I was emailed by a friend who thought I might be interested in its development).

    I realize that I personally have no reason for expecting you to give me the common courtesy of first determining whether I'm involved in an issue before dragging my name in it. But in the interest of those in the SCI Community who visit this forum you might show some tactful restraint and judgement. These issues are heated enough without you compounding matters with ungrounded delusions.

    James Kelly

  10. #10
    Senior Member bill j.'s Avatar
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    Gee, Jim, I am sorry if I offended you. But you have to admit that whoever posted the discourse on the web site must have stolen your thoughts and ideas exactly. Not only that, but they were an expert at replicating the childish tone of your past postings. In fact, the more I read it, the more it sounds like you. And Jim, you should be the last person on earth to lecture someone about common courtesy or finding out the facts before making accusations.

    It's very interesting that you are keeping such a close eye on this thread. We haven't had the pleasure of hearing from you in weeks.

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