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Thread: Icon Product Shots

  1. #61
    Senior Member grommet's Avatar
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    Has anyone already asked about wheel locks? I'm looking at the chair and trying to figure where to mount them. I know some people ride without them but I need them.

  2. #62
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grommet View Post
    Has anyone already asked about wheel locks? I'm looking at the chair and trying to figure where to mount them. I know some people ride without them but I need them.
    the order form lists scissor and push to lock brakes, if you're talking about adi brakes, they're also on there.
    http://www.iconwheelchairs.com/docs/...order-form.pdf

  3. #63
    Senior Member grommet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jschism View Post
    the order form lists scissor and push to lock brakes, if you're talking about adi brakes, they're also on there.
    http://www.iconwheelchairs.com/docs/...order-form.pdf
    Thanks. I just looked at the Sportaid order form and found the wheel locks. I really don't know how people get by without them but I guess eveything is about technique.

    Oops, I may be starting a new thread.

  4. #64
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    @jeff adams- I'd like to thank you for taking the time to address peoples concerns, positive and negative. Like you mentioned this is a product that very few have seen or tried, so most of the negative comments are not even proven statements and are assumptions. Thanks for sticking it out with all the negatives, IMO, that says a lot for the product and company. It's got to be very frustrating and it would be pretty easy to just ignore them or tell them off.
    Last edited by jschism; 09-12-2011 at 09:45 PM. Reason: add

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by grommet View Post
    Thanks. I just looked at the Sportaid order form and found the wheel locks. I really don't know how people get by without them but I guess eveything is about technique.

    Oops, I may be starting a new thread.
    It's been "threaded."

  6. #66
    Senior Member BriRi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen212 View Post
    As the seat height increases the upsweep of the caster wing becomes less effective in preventing leg splaying, though this might not be an issue for the many users who prefer having their legs open. My new ZR2 was spec'd narrower in the front for a "tight" fit, which is my personal preference. I just don't see how that could be achieved with the Icon. Bust as you note, no chair can be all things to all users.

    It would be interesting to see comparison pics of users sitting in Icons adjusted identically to their current chairs to see how this part of the Icon's frame architecture changes, or doesn't change, their seating dynamic.
    More than one way to skin a cat... In the Icon you would just need to use wedges, spacers or other additions to you cushion/system to get desired/optimal leg positioning... Much easier than changing the front of your ZR2 and probably better for your skin as well....

    Come to think of it that's another positive thing about this chair.... I have multiple cushions but some only fit certain chairs... You can change cushions at will and have the chair conform to make them more comfortable...... Way to go guys!!!!

  7. #67
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    Ok I took this thread to my seating specialist. and icons web page to her. she said its a very interesting chair. and she would be interested in using one in the rehab department. I asked if getting one is fesable through insurance and medicare. here's what she said. Insurance Maybe but they would look at it as it was a K007 coded chair. medicare no. medicade absolutely not! The price tag makes a big difference. In order to obtain a chair like this she would have to justify every inch of the chair. insurances are using medicare guide lines now. witch means good luck getting one. When I asked her about my wifes insurance. she said oh my no They are super picky. witch left me crush because what weights heavy on insurance is they price they pay for equipment. DME's Jack Up The insurance bill so bad that the DME's Butt Rape the insurances. I really wanted one but. its a no go!

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen212 View Post
    As the seat height increases the upsweep of the caster wing becomes less effective in preventing leg splaying, though this might not be an issue for the many users who prefer having their legs open. My new ZR2 was spec'd narrower in the front for a "tight" fit, which is my personal preference. I just don't see how that could be achieved with the Icon. Bust as you note, no chair can be all things to all users.

    It would be interesting to see comparison pics of users sitting in Icons adjusted identically to their current chairs to see how this part of the Icon's frame architecture changes, or doesn't change, their seating dynamic.
    Stephen, you're not wrong in saying that the upsweep becomes less effective at higher front seat heights, but one of the things that we considered is that generally, as the seat height increases, so the level of injury lowers, and as the level of injury lowers, the need to manage the leg splaying issue also decreases.

    The front end "sweeps" up to about 15" from the ground with a 559 wheel.

    This means that anyone sitting with a <19" front seat height (the vast majority of users), will if they choose to, have the wing contact their leg within 4" of the top of the seat - the lower the front seat height (which usually indicates a higher injury level and a corresponding increased need to manage the leg splaying issue), the closer the wing is to the top of the leg.

    The bigger issue though (and a debatable one to some) is that the splaying issue is better remedied through a corrective seating/positioning exercise, than by resting your legs up against a tube.

    As BriRi notes, something like the frame protector pads pictured below can be added if the space needs to be narrowed to a custom width (which is exactly our plan for managing this issue), and still look neat and professional.

    Attachment 41978

    Attachment 41979

    Out of interest, where do your legs contact your frame, measured up from the floor, and measured down from your seat? What's the width of the frame at the point of contact? How many tries (eg. how many chairs) did it take you to get that spacing "just right"?

    As a final thought, a lot of these naysaying complaints (eg. "I just can't see how it will work", "I'll definitely need to upgrade", "There's no way it will survive the way I use/abuse chairs") seem rooted in the idea that the Icon design is somehow random. I promise you that we didn't just bend a damn tube, using whatever die we tripped over in a dirty shop to some undetermined height. We did a month of ergonomic studies with one of the best engineering companies in the world, then we took the concept to dozens of seating clinics, then we vetted it to at least that many wheelchair users of various injury levels to make sure we were on track, then we put it through a crazy FEA program to make it as strong and light as we could, then we put it on RESNA rollers and beat the crap out of it.

    I'm not saying that there won't need to be changes, or that we've thought of everything, but this chair hasn't been designed in the absence of thought or consideration. You and others haven't had the benefit of having seen it in real life, you weren't able to participate in the hundreds of hours of FEA analysis, you weren't part of the design review meetings with the top minds in engineering, and because you haven't spent the last year and a bit thinking about it, it's not fair to expect that you should be able to see how it could work, but in most of these situations, we can see how it will work, how it does work.

    All of these postings, all of the "open source" transparency is an attempt to let people who use chairs be a part of the process, or at least give a window into the effort and process that's gone into this - and without the naysayers and the doubters, without the people who just flat out hate it, we'd be as stagnant as the industry we're trying to jump-start.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by randomryan007 View Post
    Ok I took this thread to my seating specialist. and icons web page to her. she said its a very interesting chair. and she would be interested in using one in the rehab department. I asked if getting one is fesable through insurance and medicare. here's what she said. Insurance Maybe but they would look at it as it was a K007 coded chair. medicare no. medicade absolutely not! The price tag makes a big difference. In order to obtain a chair like this she would have to justify every inch of the chair. insurances are using medicare guide lines now. witch means good luck getting one. When I asked her about my wifes insurance. she said oh my no They are super picky. witch left me crush because what weights heavy on insurance is they price they pay for equipment. DME's Jack Up The insurance bill so bad that the DME's Butt Rape the insurances. I really wanted one but. its a no go!
    Right out of the gate, she's wrong. We're currently coded as a k0005, and will be going to argue our case to be coded as a k0009 next month. I'm confident that we'll end up as a k0009. A k0007 is a heavy duty or bariatric chair - miles away from what we are.

    She's right though, it will require some "justification" work on her part, but it's totally do-able, key word is that it will require some work on her part. To discount your wife's insurance out of hand is regrettable.

    Send me a pm to jeff@iconwheelchairs.com, and I'll try to help you out.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffAdams View Post
    Right out of the gate, she's wrong. We're currently coded as a k0005, and will be going to argue our case to be coded as a k0009 next month. I'm confident that we'll end up as a k0009. A k0007 is a heavy duty or bariatric chair - miles away from what we are.

    She's right though, it will require some "justification" work on her part, but it's totally do-able, key word is that it will require some work on her part. To discount your wife's insurance out of hand is regrettable.

    Send me a pm to jeff@iconwheelchairs.com, and I'll try to help you out.
    Even if they are following medicare guild lines?
    My Bad K0009 I mean.
    Sent you an email

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