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Thread: DME Etiquette Question

  1. #11
    Yeah the manager of the other place actually used to work at the place where the jerk is (sorry for the confusing language, I'm trying to be diplomatic on the internet) and we got along well, so we're pretty much just jumping ship.

    Okay so my present seat dimension is 15.5 wide by 16 inches long. Personally I feel like this is snug in both directions, though I imagine if I changed the dump or the front angle, that could change. But I think I'm good with those settings as they are.

  2. #12
    With your being a L4/5, I doubt you would need any dump or in the most 1". Not sure how tall or big you ar but I doubt I would go any more than a 85 or 90o front angle. There should be around a two finger space between the back of your knees and front edge of the seat.

    You aren't jumpin ship, you're saving yourself a lot of headache. If he asks, tell him why. There is a large, huge, mark up on chairs, why give the money toa jerk lol/

    Size of tires?

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Locke30 View Post
    Okay so my present seat dimension is 15.5 wide by 16 inches long. Personally I feel like this is snug in both directions, though I imagine if I changed the dump or the front angle, that could change. But I think I'm good with those settings as they are.
    [NOTE TO ALL READERS: It appears I have taken the lead in guiding Locke30 through learning about wheelchair measurements, but I am an amateur, so please jump in as you see fit to correct me or to add something I've missed.]

    OK (that's another couple entries on the order form - as you say, we'll double check the seat depth when we get to the FSH and front angle).

    Next, because you don't need much dump (you have good trunk control), let's determine your Rear Seat Height (RSH). When dump is not critical, I like to place the RSH priority on obtaining a high pushing efficiency. (Like Patrick said, you don't need much dump for stability, but that doesn't mean you can't have more. I don't need much dump, but I have 3" because of my relatively low RSH and my solid seat pan.)

    We need to know (as Patrick said) your preferred rear wheel size. (Standard adult is 24"; some experienced users prefer 25"; sport chairs are often fitted with 26"; wheel size can be a whole discussion in itself. We can go there if you want; otherwise just choose 24".)

    Now is a good time to ask how tall you are, and confirm your weight is comfortably under the ZR's gross limit of 265#, which includes things like your clothes and a backpack with its contents.

    To determine my RSH, I took two measurements, then did some math.

    I sat straight but relaxed in a hard-seated kitchen chair with my arms hanging limply at my sides . My wife then made two measurements: 1) from the floor to the center of my middle finger nail (measure both sides to make sure you're sitting straight) and 2) from the floor to the back of the chair's seat top (bottom of your bottom).

    The goal for a good pushing efficiency is to pick a RSH at which the center of your rear-wheels' axles align with the center of your middle fingers' nails when you're sitting with good posture. (Technical research exists <attached> stating the best elbow-angle range a user should have when his hands rest at the apex of the handrims, but it translates roughly to aligning your finger tips with your axles.) You need not be super accurate; +/- 1/2" is plenty good. Now with math and seat-pan awareness, we will translate your kitchen-chair measurements to seat height. (I need a break, so I'll edit more in later.)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by chasmengr; 08-21-2011 at 02:08 PM.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  4. #14
    You seem to be right on Chas. Keep it up.

  5. #15
    I'm 5'5" and I weigh 180.

    I think I'd like to try to 25" I've been using 24" My rear seat height is currently 16" as such the beginning of my palm covers the quick release button when my arms are down. I have long arms and I also think my cushion has compressed somewhat.

    The seat was 18" and my fingernail was 8" off the ground.

  6. #16
    Your height and weight are within a ZR's range. Great!

    And you chose 25” wheels – another box on the order form!!

    Your arms are long. With 25” wheels, your finger tips should be about 12.5” off the ground. That means your preliminary rear seat height should be 22.5”: 18+(12.5-8)=18+4.5=22.5. Now we need to adjust this preliminary height to manufacturer language. TiLite measures RSH from the top, rear of the seat-frame tubing. They consider neither cushion thickness nor cushion support style. But we need to consider both.

    1) Do you like your current cushion? If so, I'll need you to observe/measure about how thick it is when you're sitting on it (compressed cushion thickness). If not, I know nothing about cushions other than mine, which I'll be glad to discuss, or we'll need to solicit cushion suggestions from other CCC users.

    2) Will you support your cushion with a sling, a solid cushion insert, or a solid seat pan? A sling support will lower your bottom (raise your required rear seat height) about an inch. A solid support (either kind) will not change the required rear seat height.

    Note: The ZR has a maximum RSH of 20” with any size rear wheel. To achieve that you'll need a cushion/support combination that accounts for 2.5”. Now is the time to double check your kitchen-chair measurements – RSH on the ZR is not adjustable.

    Attachment 41708
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  7. #17
    My cloud cushion is four years old, it probably needs to be replaced. Best guess is a compressed thickness of two inches.

    I've never used a solid support, so I'm not really sure. People here seem to like them. If I can demo it I would probably go that route.

  8. #18
    2” compressed cushion thickness is pretty standard for users with sensation (mine is 2”) even for a new one.

    With a 2” compressed cushion and solid seat support, you'll need a 20” RSH for good propulsion, which will put your finger tips about 12” off the floor.

    Such a relatively high RSH does present some challenges: 1) a propensity to tip over, 2) under-table/desk clearances, and 3) standing transfers. You never want negative dump (FSH lower than RSH). Even 0 dump makes me a bit nervous because sudden stops are problematic – with 0 to 1” of dump (20” to 21” FSH), I suggest ordering a seat belt, which you can wear when needed.

    Presuming good propulsion remains our goal, I'll continue. (The propensity for tipping over can be reduced with appropriate camber and wheelbase. We'll cover those later.)

    Under-table clearance and dump are both dependent on FSH, which is where we'll go next.

    The bottom of my kitchen table is 26” above the floor. A 20” FSH + 2” compressed cushion leaves only 4” for your thighs – I definitely wouldn't fit. Are you okay with such clearance issues? (Remember Zrs have fixed RSHs.) If so, I'll continue with the primary goal of good propulsion -- do you want a 20", 20.5", or 21" FSH?; if not, what goal(s) do you have?

    Attachment 41710

    NOTE to CCC Readers: I'm a bit uncomfortable recommending such a high RSH. Your comments would be greatly appreciated.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  9. #19
    Well I've been pushing with this height for the last five years, and probably pretty close to it for my whole life. Raising me up 4 or 5 inches seems kinda extreme. I think maybe 2 inches would be a sufficient improvement, but what do I know.

  10. #20
    It seems a bit extreme to me, too. That's why I'm hoping some one else will jump in here. Like I said, I'm an amateur. You are young, I'm concerned about your shoulders long term.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

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