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Thread: This pain is slowly killing me....

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Français View Post
    But he was healthy until he died, so why would he have killed himself? I saw him give an interview with Bill Maher not too long before it and the man seemed fine.

    Cass, your own link states that the people Kevorkian helped end their lives were indeed not whole individuals and chose that option. People with disabilities have as much a right to choose to end their lives as those with terminal illnesses. Whether it's terminal cancer or an incurable ALS, what's the difference? You have a right to die.
    i don't think you read the whole thing. i also don't think you've read his writings. and yes, i am aware of how and where he died.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by cass View Post
    i don't think you read the whole thing. i also don't think you've read his writings. and yes, i am aware of how and where he died.
    Let's set aside our opinions of Kevorkian as they're clearly different. You had mentioned we don't need doctors like him but research in pain (a concept I obviously support), but research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, so I ask you, Cass, doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his suffering have any validity?


  3. #23

    Giving Chronic Pain a Medical Platform of Its Own

    I just read this from a just released article about pain:

    "The risk of suicide is high among chronic pain patients. Two studies found that about 5 percent of those with musculoskeletal pain had tried to kill themselves; among patients with chronic abdominal pain, the number was 14 percent."

    The article appears here for those of you who have pain; http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...rm-of-its-own/
    Gary Is = L-1 Para for 34 years.....................
    ~~~~~~~~~~

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Français View Post
    Let's set aside our opinions of Kevorkian as they're clearly different. You had mentioned we don't need doctors like him but research in pain (a concept I obviously support), but research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, so I ask you, Cass, doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his suffering have any validity?
    of course the principle does, but like any principle, it's how it is implemented which must be scrutinized. and please don't misquote me. i did not say "doctors like him" i said "idiots." he lost his med license long ago.

    so, to continue your thought on pain research, consider this: since sci research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, then doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his/her suffering also apply? when? 2 months post, 5 yrs? or should we focus on support in terms of depression, financial, etc.? perhaps you prefer kevorkian's outlook (you don't have to look hard to find it) which was: better to harvest organs from those unfortunates to supply those more fortunate.

    almost anybody can end their life by many means. yes, there are a few exceptions. but refusing medical treatment is one. having a directive in place is important if not cognizant. people overdose on meds and alcohol all the time. i find the whole issue a bit moot. if one wants to commit suicide, one will find a way. AIDs patients were doing it for a time there, but wait, bet that's tapered off quite a bit.

    we have had the assisted suicide law in WA state since 2009, oregon even longer. neither really has been used much considering ab's views of how much the terminally ill are suffering (the laws only apply to them).

    people already have the choice. the question is, how many are having it made for them? therein lies the debate.

    so, enough hijacking this thread. if you wish to continue, i'd suggest a new thread off the pain forum.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Garyis View Post
    I just read this from a just released article about pain:

    "The risk of suicide is high among chronic pain patients. Two studies found that about 5 percent of those with musculoskeletal pain had tried to kill themselves; among patients with chronic abdominal pain, the number was 14 percent."

    The article appears here for those of you who have pain; http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...rm-of-its-own/
    ty for that article. but frankly, i almost laughed at the examples of chronic pain. childbirth?? where was sci, ms, als, etc. mentioned?? that article was a bit of a mystery. but it sure is long overdue in mainstream media. been through childbirth, caesarean and all, while sci and already suffering central pain. thought i was going to die from the combination.
    Last edited by cass; 07-20-2011 at 01:14 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by cass View Post
    of course the principle does, but like any principle, it's how it is implemented which must be scrutinized. and please don't misquote me. i did not say "doctors like him" i said "idiots." he lost his med license long ago.
    That's semantics, not intentionally trying to misquote you.


    Quote Originally Posted by cass View Post
    so, to continue your thought on pain research, consider this: since sci research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, then doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his/her suffering also apply? when? 2 months post, 5 yrs?
    I leave that up to the individual with the condition. I want them to have the legal option, just as I want women to have the right to an abortion. I want people to have the choice and not have the state intervene in personal decisions affecting only the individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by cass View Post
    almost anybody can end their life by many means. yes, there are a few exceptions. but refusing medical treatment is one. having a directive in place is important if not cognizant. people overdose on meds and alcohol all the time. i find the whole issue a bit moot. if one wants to commit suicide, one will find a way. AIDs patients were doing it for a time there, but wait, bet that's tapered off quite a bit.
    Yes, but suicide done by oneself isn't always clean and successful. I'd rather an individual be put to sleep by a doctor than leave a bloody scene blowing his head off with a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by cass View Post
    people already have the choice. the question is, how many are having it made for them? therein lies the debate.
    True, I agree that it should be the choice of the suffering individual, not any member of kin.


  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by cass View Post
    so, enough hijacking this thread. if you wish to continue, i'd suggest a new thread off the pain forum.
    If the OP or mods want to move this discussion, I support that. I'm reading this suggestion now.


  8. #28
    ppl do have the choice. suicide is not even illegal any more in any u.s. state, i don't believe. and pills are easy to get.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Français View Post
    That's semantics, not intentionally trying to misquote you.
    I don't know why you bother. You're dealing with someone who
    can't have a civil discussion.

    Go engineers.

  10. #30
    I read your link, Cass.

    I still believe, and always have, that assisted suicide should be possible even for people who are not terminally ill. As Todd implied, many attempted suicides are *attempted* suicides only because the people committing them didn't have sufficient medical knowledge to make them succeed.

    I personally know a lady who jumped under a train when she was diagnosed with Huntington's Disease. She woke up with no legs and one arm. An acquaintance of my sister, who had full-blown AIDS but eventually lived for another two years, attempted suicide by drinking a chemical unblocker. After that, he had to be fed through a tube because his esophagus and stomach were to badly damaged to work properly.

    Do you really think any of that is better than responding to an assisted-suicide ad in a newspaper? Yes, the ad may have been put there by a man who believed that the voluntary self-elimination of the disabled would be in society's best interest. But it was also put there by a man who knew how to kill people gently.

    The most crucial question in this context is whether or not the people Kevorkian killed chose to die. There is nothing in the link you provided to suggest that any of the people mentioned there were killed against their will.

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