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Thread: Stimulette Den2x

  1. #11
    Hi VBNoon

    I tried the device out last week and it works for me and also a couple of other guys with similar lower motor lesions. My quads were contracting enough to kick my legs off the wheelchair footplate.

    I have decided to invest in the device for home-use.

    Let me know if you have anymore questions.

    Fly Pelican Fly

  2. #12
    Junior Member
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    That's terrific news! I'd be interested in knowing the price and whether they can sell it in the US yet. Is your injury complete? It is theorized that my boyfriend had a spinal stroke, so there is no feeling or motor response for his core or legs. Getting those muscles responding again would be fantastic.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by VBNoon View Post
    That's terrific news! I'd be interested in knowing the price and whether they can sell it in the US yet. Is your injury complete? It is theorized that my boyfriend had a spinal stroke, so there is no feeling or motor response for his core or legs. Getting those muscles responding again would be fantastic.
    Hi VBNoon,

    has your boyfriend actually had a regular FES (functional electronic stimulation) trial yet? If not, I would suggest you try that first at one of your local rehab centres. I would expect at T7 that the regular FES should work ok. At T7 I would not have expected lower motor damage - although I guess anything is possible with the diversity of SCI.

    My injury is incomplete but this device is shown to work for both incomplete and complete lower motor lesions - even for injuries older than a decade.

    The device costs approx $6200 in the UK at the moment. I dont believe there is a distributor in the US as of yet but CareCure members IMHopeful and Lyerly are interested in the device too. So they might be able to fill you in on any progress with getting the device to the US.

    Fly Pelican Fly

  4. #14
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    Thanks Fly. My boyfriend had several tests to check his response, but nothing works.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by VBNoon View Post
    Thanks Fly. My boyfriend had several tests to check his response, but nothing works.
    What was your BF tested with? I do not think that this unit or anything comprable to it is in the USA. From what I read it also takes time to build up to a visible response, even with this unit.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by VBNoon View Post
    Thanks Fly. My boyfriend had several tests to check his response, but nothing works.
    I have to say I am surprised to hear that normal e-stim/FES does not work for a T7.

  7. #17
    Right, I finally have my Stimulette Den2x! I will keep you guys informed of my progress.

    Fly Pelican Fly

  8. #18
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    I am interested in this product as well although I received this email from one of the profs who worked on it:


    Dear Jenn


    Thank you very much for contacting me. The work you're referring to was a multicentre European study, supported by an EU grant. It was very successful and I find it disappointing that the technique has not been taken up more widely. I think there is real conservatism in some quarters about the use of these techniques in rehabilitation.


    I'm attaching the pdf of an article I wrote for SCOPE, an informal journal of the Institute of Physics and Electricity in Medicine. In the acknowledgements at the end you will see that we did produce a device and it has been commercialized by Schuhfried. This was harder than it looked, because the currents and voltages used exceed by far what was allowed previously under European law. We had special dispensation to use the stimulation experimentally, and since that time we've obtained the full legal approval for the device, the CE mark, etc. However I have some doubts as to whether it would be legal to use it in Canada at the moment. The device is called the Stimulette den2x. It's designed for home use.


    Part of our work was to ensure that the the electrodes could be applied safely and would not cause skin burns. The conductive rubber electrodes we developed are extremely safe and we never encountered any problems with them.


    Stimulation isn't just applied to quads: it's also applied to calves and gluteals (your butt) because all are needed for standing.


    Now to address your own case specifically. You will see from the article that the best results were obtained if stimulation was applied in the first 2 years or so following injury. We believe (but have not proved) that this is because the stimulation can reverse pure atrophy (reduction in muscle fibre size) but not fibre damage or replacement by fat and connective tissue. (The results shown in the attached article, for example in Figure 3, are for rabbits during the first year of denervation and apply to this period of atrophy, not degeneration. They show that the reduction in strength of the muscles is all due to shrinkage of the fibres; as Figure 3 shows, each fibre is punching its full weight.) Given that your own injury was 26 years ago we could not hope to restore muscle mass in the same way, although there should still be some muscle fibres that could be rescued.


    However the cosmetic effects and the lack of ability to stand for a few minutes probably don't matter as much to you as improving the circulation and preventing those dreadful pressure sores. Our data from the patients in the study on changes in the skin suggest to me that skin circulation would still be improved by stimulation, even after many years of flaccid paralysis. It is significant that not a single patient in this study developed pressure sores. One patient got fed up with the daily sessions and stopped stimulating; he developed a pressure sore soon afterwards! It may be that less intense stimulation is needed to improve skin, as opposed to muscles, but I can't be sure of that; some of the vessels supplying the skin actually pass through muscles and are pumped by the contraction of the surrounding muscles, and this may be part of the action.


    As for my own position, I am formally retired (although I still go into the University once a week, unpaid!) and pursuing a second career writing science-based thrillers. That's not to say that I have lost interest in the work that we did, on auxiliary hearts created from skeletal muscle, on artificial sphincters to make continent stomas, and, of course, on the stimulation of paralysed muscles. I hope this reply gives you the information you were seeking (perhaps more than you wanted!).


    It may be that stimulation of denervated muscles is not in the mainstream of medical practice just yet, but this could change. I anticipate that the needs of soldiers returning from Afghanistan with injuries from those ghastly IEDs may generate more interest in the use of stimulation during rehabilitation, and if there are experimental trials you may be able to volunteer, provided it's not too far away and not too time-consuming.


    I have visited Canada many times. My late brother lived in Toronto (his family is still there) and my work with cardiac surgeons resulted in frequent trips to Detroit, across the water from you.


    Finally, please take the length of this reply as a token of respect. In the course of this study I have encountered many people like yourself who have managed to live productive lives despite their injuries. (One of these was an Icelandic farmer, who herded his sheep up mountains with a hand-controls-only open-back truck!) In an era when too many people seem to think that society owes them a living, you're an inspiration.


    Best wishes


    Stanley
    ------
    Emeritus Professor Stanley Salmons
    Frondeg Hall
    Aberoer
    Wrexham
    Clwyd LL14 4LG
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  9. #19
    Still not having any luck figuring out how to get this in the US. Very frustrating that there is something out there that could help myself and others that so far I can not gain access to.

  10. #20
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Did you contact Anatomical Concepts? That is who is selling it in the UK - 4000lbs + shipping. I have no way to afford it right now but am going to figure it out!

    Derek Jones is the person I emailed. They are also on Facebook.
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

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