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Thread: Power Chairs vs manual chairs for Paras : opinions, experience?

  1. #201
    Senior Member DaleB's Avatar
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    Very nice! A powerchair I would like to own. Thanks for the info and link. . That would make short work of the beach around here!

    [QUOTE=buegerman;1357040]>>>>
    Quote Originally Posted by buegerman View Post
    >>> I think if a operson could transfer to a car from that chair, they wouldn't need a pc.lol

    That wasnt me! I am of the opinion that ALL wheelchair users benefit hugely from a powerchairs if their "system" induced brainwashing allows them to try. And it opens life up to them! But sadly most powerchairs are crap. Too hard to control, no power, too heavy, too long, and often too wide. Almost always too unweildy in small places.

    Hence I build my own. As compact as possible (25.3 x 37.0 including everything), with some smooth riding real outdoor abilities, and now with lithium power and 15 mph and 45 miles of real world range... as here!

    Newer mk3 unfinished as of today:
    http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM-M...powerchair.htm

    Older mk2 version - slower and pre lithium...
    http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/ulti...powerchair.htm
    No I dont sell these, I build them in my bedroom! Burgerman.

    I have a forum and there are others building similar chairs and modyfying others over there.

    Burgerman
    __________________

    He who hears not me but the Logos will say: All is one.

  2. #202
    Junior Member Dud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t8burst View Post
    Call me brainwashed if you will but as long as I can physically do what I need to do in a manual chair I will use a manual chair. Aside from very steep hills there is nothing I can't do in my manual chair that a power chair would do for me. I can get myself and my zra in my car in 30 seconds, no ramps, vans or any special equipment. I can take normal taxi cabs (well most of them). Plus its one of the only forms of exercise I get on a regular basis. I am not judging other people, but to me it would be a form of giving up.
    T8burst --- I agree with you, I wan't to stay in a manual as long as I can. Doing so allows me a lot more freedom. Manual chairs are most always pretty light and break down easy. This allows me to get in and out of a variety of my friends cars. It also allows me to get in and out of houses that don't have ramps. With my wifes help, we can quickly get up a stair or two... which I wouldn't be able to do in a power chair.

    However, it is a case by case basis. Everyone's injury is different and so its up to the individual to choose which is best for them. No shame either way.

    NW-Will -- I hear your pain about carrying stuff. It sucks.. and I am the King of dropping stuff. However, when I am home, I have devised a board/tray with a sticky bottom that I carry my meals to the table, tools... books and it works well. I also mounted a water bottle cage near the front tire, that carries bottles of water, cans of pop (and an occasional beer!) Good luck in your decision.

    Dud

  3. #203
    >>> Ooops. Sorry about the confusion. I agree with your stance completely, and the chairs you are making look fantastic. I would love to get one someday!

    Eileen, sadly I am not in a position to sell anything. I just build them for myself. In my bedroom! I dont have the development budget, time or energy to build more.
    And others are basically cloning them, doing their own versions etc and some of these people are on my forum. There are even guys making the complex bits to sell to others...

    The idea was to shame the "real" manufacturers into building something with even half the inovation, performance, compact size, range, speed, build quality etc. Since they all seem to be stagnated. Everything stays the same with big clunky chairs and useless lead batteries, hard skinny tyres for the last 13 years that I have had to do this. They change details, fit big tv style screens, and change the colours... Its all marketing bull. No real innovation.

    Everyone needs a small compact indoor chair that works properly outdoors, in vans, on grass, snow etc. But there are non. I get askl the same question about 20 times a week on my own site. So you have to choose from indoor, or outdoor, and suffer slow charging lead batteries with limited speed and range. And a harsh ride. Maybe they will wake up one day. I hope so. Because that is the idea!

    My chairs are still too heavy. No budget! But are tippy and controllable much like a sports manual chair. Not for everyone but they do go anywhere and indoors or out. And are fun at the same time.
    Last edited by buegerman; 04-23-2011 at 09:38 AM.

  4. #204
    Senior Member Kulea's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pics, Cass. These were very helpful. I'm worried that they can't take the abuse. I push down on my armrests (to unweight and correct for slouching) probably 100 times a day. My T-style armrests failed after only a couple years and I have lived with them bottomed out since. So, I'm wondering how these would hold up. Do you often put a lot of weight on them? If so, do they flex at all?
    C-6/7 incomplete

  5. #205
    >>> I am not judging other people, but to me it would be a form of giving up

    THAT is the brain washing kicking in.

    Giving up what? Struggling? And nobody is stopping you keeping a manual for "exersize" (of the wrong type) or to get into a normal car etc. Its just another choice.

    In a powerchair much of life is easier. You may be able to ''do most things" but its all hugely harder.

    Its almost impossible to even carry a bowl of soup through a door to the next room! Never mind walking the dog or any number of other things I do as a matter of course with ease.

    >>> Doing so allows me a lot more freedom. Manual chairs are most always pretty light and break down easy. This allows me to get in and out of a variety of my friends cars. It also allows me to get in and out of houses that don't have ramps. With my wifes help, we can quickly get up a stair or two... which I wouldn't be able to do in a power chair.

    And who says you cant keep a manual chair just for that? Although there are better solutions. Like a nice safe small portable folding ramp, for steps. But no-one is taking it away! You will not give it a chance because the brain washing wins over the logic. Not your fault and its caused by the system.

    Every time I lend one of my compaact controllable powerchairs to a manual chair usert, they go out and buy one! Once you beat the programming No damage done by trying a couple.
    Last edited by buegerman; 04-23-2011 at 04:20 PM.

  6. #206

    Power chair & manual chair conversation

    buegerman... I love what you are doing with modifying power chairs and yes I want one. I want the one on your site! But, there are none to buy as you noted; "... sadly I am not in a position to sell anything. I just build them for myself."

    "Every time I lend one of my compaact controllable powerchairs to a manual chair usert, they go out and buy one!"

    I'm being curious and serious: there are none available that are close to the creative/functional design as yours and I am not in any position to get into modifying one myself. So, I just ordered a ZR series 2 configured to my specs. all within the Ti factory limits.

    Where do they buy one from?

    I'm not ready for a power chair just yet, but as I age I see that I will need one and I want something like what you want. I just hope that in the next five years a company gets the idea and a chair such as yours becomes available on the market.

    Good work man!

    Gary
    Gary Is = L-1 Para for 34 years.....................
    ~~~~~~~~~~

  7. #207
    Senior Member Van Quad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buegerman View Post
    >>> I am not judging other people, but to me it would be a form of giving up

    THAT is the brain washing kicking in.

    Giving up what? Struggling? And nobody is stopping you keeping a manual for "exersize" (of the wrong type) or to get into a normal car etc. Its just another choice.

    In a powerchair much of life is easier. You may be able to ''do most things" but its all hugely harder.

    ..
    Vancouver's former mayor in a chair, Sam Sullivan, switched around 15 years ago and said it expanded his world immensely. You need to give a second thought about getting out in or out of the van, it was now so easy. And I asked him on the weekend if he had sore shoulders because mine were killing me. He said his shoulders were fine it's possibly because of the early switch to a PC. And nobody can accuse Sam Sullivan giving up

  8. #208
    >>> Where do they buy one from?

    They go out, see whats available and buy whatever suits their situation.
    Everything from the go anywhere Frontier X5 (does everything once reprogrammed, but big indoors...) to say a TDX SP which is ok inside and at least usable outside if you go steady! And a quantum leap ahead of a manual chair outside. And many other chairs.

    There are a bunch of people on my forum creating clones or similar chairs, and also a guy creating many of the one off parts. At least for the Lead powered MK2 version. The MK3 one with huge speed, power and range is not yet done, so still being built.

    Give it a couple more months as funds and time allow for that one to be finished... But lithiums are the way. HUGELY better.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulea View Post
    Thanks for the pics, Cass. These were very helpful. I'm worried that they can't take the abuse. I push down on my armrests (to unweight and correct for slouching) probably 100 times a day. My T-style armrests failed after only a couple years and I have lived with them bottomed out since. So, I'm wondering how these would hold up. Do you often put a lot of weight on them? If so, do they flex at all?
    i suspect that could be a problem. i lean on mine all the time but i don't do pressure releases in the manner you do (i wiggle a lot). since these armrests would be subjected to a large moment arm if you were pushing on them near their front ends, i doubt they would hold up. their only vertical support is at the back, right in front of the bracket. the bracket would most likely break from metal fatigue. i had that happen actually w/first chair modified in this manner. had some exchanges with the engineering department about bracket material/thickness (alum vs steel) and number of adjustment holes they drilled in them. they were very receptive and accommodating to my input. haven't had one break in years.

    perhaps engineering at quickie could discuss this with you. but only engineering (not a sales rep). i was in contact with engineering years ago when they first did this for me.

    if you put that much weight on your armrests (and with so many daily repetitions) i think you will need the regular armrests. but i understand the regular armrest either swing away or flip up...obviously they can be removed. my issue is i am constantly wanting to just move them a little (like at a restaurant table where i just lift them enough to clear table or my desk, etc.) or i flip all the way to transfer. as a c7, i have no finger function and don't want to be messing with latches and such.
    Last edited by cass; 04-24-2011 at 10:56 PM.

  10. #210

    Otto Bock b600?

    Quote Originally Posted by amyk View Post
    ive always liked the otto bock b600 (http://www.ottobockus.com/cps/rde/xb..._SpecSheet.pdf) but i dont know anything about the performance/reliability. and you might be able to get a p222se into a car independently with a hi lift (http://www.adapt-solutions.net/products/index.php?prd=3), so long as you break it down and remove the batteries first.
    I've been reading through all these 16 plus pages and noted this post mentioning the Otto Bock b600 went to the web site and this power chair looks like the one I would get.

    Any faults with the Otto Bock b600 anyone?
    Gary Is = L-1 Para for 34 years.....................
    ~~~~~~~~~~

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