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Thread: THIS IS CP? think i'm gonna puke.

  1. #1

    THIS IS CP? think i'm gonna puke.

    "Defense attorneys countered by portraying the defendants as angels of mercy who were trying to help Smith cope with her chronic pain, particularly after she gave birth to her daughter by cesarean then quickly lost her 20-year-old son, Daniel, to a drug overdose."

    http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...-case/19694112

  2. #2
    Hi Cass

    I have been concerned about you, since you have indicated some very difficult times for you. Hope you are finding a way.

    Interesting post.

    Celebrities often get poor care because they want their own doctor, rather than sitting in those wonderful and aptly named facilities known as waiting rooms. Howard Hughes seems to fall in that category. This was certainly a case where EXPERT testimony should have been invoked to the fullest. There is not enough detail to know if this happened, but the testimony of the pharmacist seems to have been featured prominently.

    I was a little troubled to see the court allowed a pharmacist to testify that the drugs amounted to "pharmaceutical suicide". I am not sure how that differs from ordinary suicide. I an kind of doubting the pharmacist spent time in the Emergency Room treating overdose and was familiar with the picture in live humans. I am not disputing his claim, just wondering why HE was the one chosen to say it.

    Normally, such testimony would require a clinician. Most states will not allow testimony on clinical matters unless the witness specializes in the field under question. So allowing a pharmacist to testify puts physicians under greater hazard in court. Not sure this is a precedent courts should follow, although they almost certainly will.

    I imagine some of us might fall under scrutiny for large amounts of meds. Mainline opiates were of no help to me at the pain center, so I have avoided that problem, although if opiates had worked, I would certainly have taken them, and might likely have encountered much scrutiny. Since the doctors don't believe your pain, asking for drugs would certainly have made that problem much worse for me. Although I would have accepted the tradeoff gladly if the opiates had helped.

    I have always marveled at the doctors who concluded that Kevorkian's central pain subjects were "drug seekers", as if the inability to get drugs was behind their suicide, rather than the unbearable pain. Even death does not serve as a witness to the public that central pain is very severe. Recently I had a conversation with a doctor in Africa who KNEW that my story about central pain after SCI could not be true. The odd thing was he had suffered a viral illness which left him with some pain, which was REAL. Oh me.

    If pharmacists are allowed to be hired as expert witnesses against doctors, that would be a troubling development, since doctors would be even more reluctant to prescribe.

    Sounds like this woman had quite an effect on the men around her. Yet, it is surprising how little beauty can guarantee. Arndog and I are immune to such things, so we can hardly relate. DISCLOSURE: I must admit I have a two year old grandaughter who manages to get a lot more chocolate milk than is good for her. Her mind/body makes it taste good to her.

    P.S. Have you heard anything from HipCrip. I am concerned since she has not been posting.
    Last edited by dejerine; 10-29-2010 at 06:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by dejerine View Post
    Sounds like this woman had quite an effect on the men around her. Yet, it is surprising how little beauty can guarantee. Arndog and I are immune to such things, so we can hardly relate. DISCLOSURE: I must admit I have a two year old grandaughter who manages to get a lot more chocolate milk than is good for her. Her mind/body makes it taste good to her.

    P.S. Have you heard anything from HipCrip. I am concerned since she has not been posting.
    Hi Dejerine,
    Yes, I am reading your posts all the way to the end. Yes, I am totally immune to such things.
    I thought that THCrip just wanted a break from this site for a while. I certainly miss her posts.

  4. #4
    Senior Member canuck's Avatar
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    Is Pharmacist not a degree program in the states? In Canada it's a 4 year program. I would think that a pharmacist would actually have a better idea of the effects of drugs then a MD.

  5. #5
    Six years ago I had no idea what CP or Neuropathy was... What kind of pain did Smith, Michael Jackson, and a slew of other stars suffer from?

    Some of us have known the pain of child birth. Most of us have known the very real pain of loosing a loved one. Do any of these even compare to CP or Neuropathy? What do cases like this do for/to us that need some of these same drugs to try and have some kind of a life? I already go through hell and half of Georgia to be treated every month. I find it insulting to have to go through drug tests like a junkie being watched. What's in store for us in the future? How much worse can it get to be treated fully. As it is one is not treated aggresively enough, in most cases, to have quality of life.

    I don't think the general public has a clue what central pain is and it's sad, but I think the same could be said for a lot of general practicianers. I do know mine won't even write an rx for pain meds. I received a paper stating this when I went for my first visit.. I was freaking out, thinking I was finally going to get help since I finally had insurance, and then find out I still can't get help. That was almost two years ago, and I did'nt get any help until my neuro doctor finally sent me to the pain clinic this spring.

    I'm afraid cases like this will make it worse for all of us, doctors included.

  6. #6
    Canuck

    yes, Pharmacist is a degree program in the states. There is a big difference from reading about something in a book, and watching behavior in overdosed people in the 'ER. The M.D. is trained to weigh other things such as the synergistic effect of alcohol, kidney or liver function, acid base state, diabetes, etc. all of which may presage outcome.

    Some opiates are quite easy to reverse and "attempted suicides" aborted with regularity in the ER, provided you can get the subject there soon enough. A pharmacist is probably the better of an M.D. on things like drug dynamics, pharmacology etc. But as to what is likely to lead to death, the physician is the go to guy.

    Of course at some dosages, there really is no debate as to what is lethal. Since the courts would not know in advance if the dosage level was beyond doubt, they could not really pre qualify a pharmacist to give testimony. I am speaking from a legal standpoint here, not a medical one. The leading expert on the TRPV 1 ion channels of neuropathic pain in our country is a PhD pharmacologist, so I take nothing from them. I also do not know the dosages involved in this case, so perhaps I should not comment.
    Last edited by dejerine; 10-30-2010 at 08:30 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member alan's Avatar
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    Not being female, I never had to think about the pain of childbirth personally, but as bad as that must be, it's temporary (though I'm sure that fact is of no comfort to a woman while she's delivering a child, and afterward.)
    Alan

    Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

  8. #8
    I wonder if they had difficulty finding physician experts and had to settle for a Pharmacist 'gun for hire'.

  9. #9
    my point was, this is CP? ok. i've had CP since injury. lost my mom, dad, bro, cousin, best friend oh and had emergency c section, and worked fulltime, few other things, post injury. that's what made me puke. cp?? no. this woman was a freakin addict. she made a choice. where was the cp? where was my choice??

  10. #10
    Exactly, nothing but a rich and famous everyday run of the mill junkie. That evidently should have gotten head help, not pill help. That kind of crap killed her and makes it bad for people who really need the drug help.

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