Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Jerry, don't you have anything better to do than come here and nitpick every sentence Wise writes? Why do you feel the need to try and discredit him?...
    Thanks, Jim, feel the same here.

  2. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Jerry, don't you have anything better to do than come here and nitpick every sentence Wise writes? Why do you feel the need to try and discredit him? I can sorta understand why Paolo might, he's injured and frustrated.
    There are contradictions that are very hard to ignore.

    Paolo

    P.S. thanks for understanding my frustration
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  3. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by KofQ View Post
    ...........

    ... How do you propose to convince the FDA or any IRB to allow you to test Ch'ase on humans without starting with complete injuries first? Moreover, how do you propose to convince a cohort of patients to agree to participate in a clinical trial that is not likely to help them, and could possibly harm them?
    ....
    Stem Cell Inc. is doing a phase II trial that has the above problems.
    They have found the solution.

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  4. #974
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    Jerry, I am happy to read you posts about chase and thankful for your research. However, I too find many of your comments to Wise nitpicky and clever gotchas while ignoring facts, like those from petty minded politicians.

    You were "baffled" that Wise was proposing a clinical trial without animal experiments. You apparently didn't see many places where Wise had stated just that, and didn't trust him to be a fellow professional aware of and following rigorous science. When the facts were pointed out to you, there was no expression of regrets from you. Instead, you complained that the timeline prediction was inappropriate. Anybody can understand that the timeline is a goal provided everything else pans out, which Wise has himself said many a time. Apparently, you are unwilling to give Wise that common courtesy. Maybe, you even believe that Wise will not know to not start the clinical trial if the animal studies don't show efficacy.

    You have strongly advocated for clinical trials using chase, and now maybe a new similar compound that you're working on. Have you done any animal studies with chronic contusion injuries and chase or the new compound already?

    I hope you take into account my comments about your comments to Wise. I don't particularly wish to join a slanging match about this. Please, continue to post because I would hate to not see your valuable contribution to CareCure about your SCI research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Jerry, don't you have anything better to do than come here and nitpick every sentence Wise writes? Why do you feel the need to try and discredit him? I can sorta understand why Paolo might, he's injured and frustrated.
    Last edited by Quad62; 07-06-2012 at 01:18 AM.

  5. #975
    Quad62, I think Jerry Silver has answered your queston about whether he is doing animal studies on the new compound. (Chase has been tested by many laboratories)

    Jerry has said elsewhere:

    "We are testing this new peptide at both acute and chronic time points after cord injury in rats using the Infinite Horizon impactor device to create severe contusive injuries. In these experiments , we are analyzing return of locomotor and bladder function. We are also testing the peptide at both acute and chronic time points after C2 hemisection lesion in rats focusing here on return of respiratory function. I will present all of our results to date at SFN in New Orleans and at W2W in the fall and, of course, we are now in the process or writing this up for publication."

  6. #976
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    Thanks, Christopher Paddon. I look forward to results/publication.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Paddon View Post
    Quad62, I think Jerry Silver has answered your queston about whether he is doing animal studies on the new compound. (Chase has been tested by many laboratories)

    Jerry has said elsewhere:

    "We are testing this new peptide at both acute and chronic time points after cord injury in rats using the Infinite Horizon impactor device to create severe contusive injuries. In these experiments , we are analyzing return of locomotor and bladder function. We are also testing the peptide at both acute and chronic time points after C2 hemisection lesion in rats focusing here on return of respiratory function. I will present all of our results to date at SFN in New Orleans and at W2W in the fall and, of course, we are now in the process or writing this up for publication."

  7. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Jerry, don't you have anything better to do than come here and nitpick every sentence Wise writes? Why do you feel the need to try and discredit him? I can sorta understand why Paolo might, he's injured and frustrated.






    Mr. Silver can be jealous therefore continue to toy with the chondroitinase on RAT is leave us quiet with pr young is its job on HUMANS

    thank you pr young for your job for we

  8. #978
    We are all in this together and should support each other. The sooner we do this as a team, the sooner we will discover holy grail.

  9. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    We are all in this together and should support each other. The sooner we do this as a team, the sooner we will discover holy grail.
    Right, and none should say it is difficult to fix SCI, anymore. 6000 scientists collaborating on a defined goal discovered recently what’s believed to be the Higgs Boson. The Higgs Boson are much smaller and undefined than any neuron so by that comparison fixing SCI should be a walk in the park, if only more scientists could collaborate and actually do committed studies on fixing SCI. Its simply not good enough to have only approximately a couple of handfuls of laboratories worldwide working on fixing SCI with limited to none collaboration. Good thing those few do this research of course, but the potential to do more is huge.

  10. #980
    Hi, kz. Let me first emphasize that we are currently looking at candidates for clinical trial for 2014 when I anticipate that recruitment for the currently planned umbilical cord blood mononuclear cell and lithium trial will be completed. Cethrin and MUSE cells are candidates for clinical trial and we (and others) will be doing preclinical studies of these treatments.

    Doing a clinical trial on dogs is not as simple as you think. There are very few places that have enough dogs with natural spinal cord injuries. Purdue is one of these places but the study may take more than one year and would also require substantial funding.

    Dog (and other large animal) studies are required to establish safety of therapies before they are taken to clinical trials. Dog studies have already been done with Cethrin to prove that it is safe and Cethrin has been shown to be safe in Phase I/II human trials. Likewise, umbilical blood mononuclear cells have been applied to dogs and humans and shown to be safe.

    If a center that has access to naturally injured dogs had the wherewithal and desire to do a combination umbilical cord blood mononuclear cell plus lithium plus cethrin trial, I would be more than happy to help them in any way that we can. But, I would not want to delay our 2014 trials. We want to choose the best available and most promising therapy.

    If you (or anybody) can think of better therapies to do in 2014, I would be very glad to hear of them. We are also considering nasal mucosa olfactory ensheathing glia, the NgR decoy receptors, chondroitinase, combination neurotrophins, Schwann cell transplants, and various combinations of these.

    It seems that many people here have gotten the situation backward. We are looking for candidates for our next clinical trial after we have completed our planned phase III trial to assess umbilical cord blood mononuclear cells and lithium. I have indicated that Cethrin and MUSE cells are two promising candidates that may be ready for trial in 2014.

    Do you know of any other? If so, please argue for them. Thanks.

    Wise.



    Quote Originally Posted by kz View Post
    Hi Dr. Young ,
    Thanks indeed for everything you do . I have a question regarding CETHRIN. you said that you plan to do clinical trial with cethrin sometimes in 2014 , and my understanding is cethrin was not tried on chronic asia A animals yet , and you have to do chronic asia A rats first before you do the human clinical trial (please correct me if i am wrong) , so , based on that, isn't a good idea that right now , you try to do clinical trial on DOGS THAT ARE ALREADT PARALYSED FROM SPINAL CORD INJURY (injury from car accidents , falls , etc , and assuming their owners agree to give it a try to see if it helps their dogs , and i am assuming that safety of cethrin is already is established in acute trials before) ?
    wouldn't that save a lot of time and resources and we will know if it really works on animals with chronic SCI asia A or not before we do human trials? this way , those doge may get chance to get better(assuming it will works on chronics ASIA A) , and their injury is natural and close to human injury . it probably cost less because you do not have to creat the injury , wait to become chronics , and the owners might take care of their doges and probably the rehabilitation after the trial. and hopefully those doges get a chance to get better . JUst a thought , what do you think ? thanks so much.
    Last edited by Wise Young; 07-06-2012 at 09:17 AM.

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