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Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    Why can't you tell us some - more precise - personal observation? Just one more "SCINet leak", c'mon

    Paolo
    Paolo and Barrington,

    I stated that we have decided to go ahead with Phase 3. This is not a ChinaSCINet "leak". It is an update of our progress in the trials. I cannot and will not release detailed information about outcomes in the midst of an ongoing clinical trial that is still collecting data. You will have to wait until we have collected all the information, analyzed it, and published that information. Please stop before you make me regret releasing any information to the community.

    Wise.

  2. #762
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Paolo and Barrington,

    I stated that we have decided to go ahead with Phase 3. This is not a ChinaSCINet "leak". It is an update of our progress in the trials. I cannot and will not release detailed information about outcomes in the midst of an ongoing clinical trial that is still collecting data. You will have to wait until we have collected all the information, analyzed it, and published that information. Please stop before you make me regret releasing any information to the community.

    Wise.

    Now that's what i call seriousness (not that it is in doubt) but Stem cell inc have the same protocol

  3. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Paolo and Barrington,

    I stated that we have decided to go ahead with Phase 3. This is not a ChinaSCINet "leak". It is an update of our progress in the trials. I cannot and will not release detailed information about outcomes in the midst of an ongoing clinical trial that is still collecting data. You will have to wait until we have collected all the information, analyzed it, and published that information. Please stop before you make me regret releasing any information to the community.

    Wise.
    Stem Cell inc. provided an update based on data from multiple evaluations of the patients and on that base decided to move to ASIA B patients.
    http://investor.stemcellsinc.com/pho...071&highlight=

    So my point was that you have provided people some esily misunderstandable info IMO based on your personal evaluation.
    I was hoping you could provide info based on multiple evaluations of the patients (which you have done for sure since you decided to move to phase 3 to clear any doubt.

    If I put it like that does it make more sense?

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  4. #764
    How hard is it to understand that Wise releases what he thinks is professionally responsible and at the same time balancing the knowledge that people on this site are very interested in the progress? Is your goal to have him stop posting these kind of updates all together, because that will be the outcome if people keep attacking him.

    The man has obviously dedicated his life to help us. I don't understand your attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    Stem Cell inc. provided an update based on data from multiple evaluations of the patients and on that base decided to move to ASIA B patients.
    http://investor.stemcellsinc.com/pho...071&highlight=

    So my point was that you have provided people some esily misunderstandable info IMO based on your personal evaluation.
    I was hoping you could provide info based on multiple evaluations of the patients (which you have done for sure since you decided to move to phase 3 to clear any doubt.

    If I put it like that does it make more sense?

    Paolo

  5. #765
    T8 i do believe that this is also being discussed in another thread
    Personally i do believe that professional opinion and personal observation by a professional
    can easily get mixed up in internet forums and turn into wildfires the likes we have already.
    seen. Anyway we are a community of friends fighting the same cause so honest comment is welcome.

  6. #766
    Quote Originally Posted by peterf View Post
    T8 i do believe that this is also being discussed in another thread
    Personally i do believe that professional opinion and personal observation by a professional
    can easily get mixed up in internet forums and turn into wildfires the likes we have already.
    seen. Anyway we are a community of friends fighting the same cause so honest comment is welcome.
    I don't read every thread, so I apologize if this is duplicated somewhere. I think Wise is extremely careful about what he posts due to a lot of very self-evident reasons and there are no "personal observations" involved by him. I will never understand people who doubt his sincerity or attack him personally or professionally. He is a person who is not infallible but the sincerity and dedication to people with SCI cannot be doubted. I am genuinely puzzled by people that do and worry that these "wildfires" will put him off of posting here and we will lose a valuable insight into our hopes for a cure.

  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    Stem Cell inc. provided an update based on data from multiple evaluations of the patients and on that base decided to move to ASIA B patients.
    http://investor.stemcellsinc.com/pho...071&highlight=

    So my point was that you have provided people some esily misunderstandable info IMO based on your personal evaluation.
    I was hoping you could provide info based on multiple evaluations of the patients (which you have done for sure since you decided to move to phase 3 to clear any doubt.

    If I put it like that does it make more sense?

    Paolo
    Paolo,

    It is not true that Stem Cells Inc. provided detailed outcomes data in their announcement. They basically said something similar to what I said, i.e. the treatment is safe, there are some improvements, and the data have encouraged them to move forward to the next planned phase of the trial.

    Our criteria for moving forward to the phase 3 trial is that the transplants are safe, and there should be motor and sensory improvement. In my opinion, the phase 2 trial has fulfilled these criteria, and we are moving to the next phase of the trial.

    If people want to know the details of the recovery and its relationship to treatment dose and imaging results, they will simply have to wait until the formal data have been collected, analyzed, and published. Detailed outcomes data should not and will not be provided while the trial is still going on.

    If you don't want to believe that the some subjects are walking, that's all right but please stop implying that I have lied about some subjects walking to increase optimism or raise funds. That is not only false and insulting but damaging to the field.

    Wise.

  8. #768
    Thank Wise today from the bottom of your heart, that you are saved by science and by faith in Him alone.

  9. #769
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Paolo,

    It is not true that Stem Cells Inc. provided detailed outcomes data in their announcement. They basically said something similar to what I said, i.e. the treatment is safe, there are some improvements, and the data have encouraged them to move forward to the next planned phase of the trial.

    Our criteria for moving forward to the phase 3 trial is that the transplants are safe, and there should be motor and sensory improvement. In my opinion, the phase 2 trial has fulfilled these criteria, and we are moving to the next phase of the trial.

    If people want to know the details of the recovery and its relationship to treatment dose and imaging results, they will simply have to wait until the formal data have been collected, analyzed, and published. Detailed outcomes data should not and will not be provided while the trial is still going on.

    If you don't want to believe that the some subjects are walking, that's all right but please stop implying that I have lied about some subjects walking to increase optimism or raise funds. That is not only false and insulting but damaging to the field.

    Wise.
    Wise read more carefully please,
    I said Stem Cell Inc. based the decision to move forward on data from multiple evaluations of the patients and on that base decided to move to ASIA B patients. So they have collected the data, examinated them and made the decision.
    I didn't say they made the data available.
    My point was that you said you reported "personal evaluations" and based on that the decision to move to phase III.
    Please don't twist my words.
    In any case I will be happy to shut up once you will provide scientific evidence that people that were asia A not walking before are now walking (as the definition of walking posted before) no matter if it was due to the UCB + Li, the surgery or rehab which you would find out just in phase III.

    I expect that if you have enrolled patients ASIA A that were not walking and now some are walking it should be very easy to provide scientific evidece for that soon as it should be easier then prove sensation returns or minor motor recovery.

    I'll be waiting for that scientific evidence that hopefully you will provide very soon.

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  10. #770
    Paolo, perhaps you should read carefully what you said. I have not twisted your words. You have suggested that I am claiming that subjects in the trial are walking in order to increase optimism and to raise funds. You have been demanding that I provide proof of the walking and brought up the Stem Cell Inc. disclosure that they have decided to go onto the next phase of the trial because they have data that the treatment is safe, there were some improvements, and have decided to go on to the next phase of the trial. I pointed out that they did not provide detailed outcome data and I have made a very similar statement, that we are going on to phase 3 trial because the cell transplants seem safe, that many subjects are having some sensory improvement, and some subjects are walking. You seem to have some kind of problem with the fact that I have observed some subjects walking. I have explained why I cannot disclose the data now. As soon as all the data is collected and analyzed, we will publish the data and everybody, including you, can judge. Wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    Wise read more carefully please,
    I said Stem Cell Inc. based the decision to move forward on data from multiple evaluations of the patients and on that base decided to move to ASIA B patients. So they have collected the data, examinated them and made the decision.
    I didn't say they made the data available.
    My point was that you said you reported "personal evaluations" and based on that the decision to move to phase III.
    Please don't twist my words.
    In any case I will be happy to shut up once you will provide scientific evidence that people that were asia A not walking before are now walking (as the definition of walking posted before) no matter if it was due to the UCB + Li, the surgery or rehab which you would find out just in phase III.

    I expect that if you have enrolled patients ASIA A that were not walking and now some are walking it should be very easy to provide scientific evidece for that soon as it should be easier then prove sensation returns or minor motor recovery.

    I'll be waiting for that scientific evidence that hopefully you will provide very soon.

    Paolo

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