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Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Kyle,

    In human, the phrenic nucleus is located at C3, C4, and C5. In rat and most subprimate species, it is located at C4 and C5. It is very plastic. Just the part of the nucleus at C3 is able to do much of the breathing. For that reason, most people who have had C4/5 injuries often are able to wean off the ventilator.

    In our clinical trials, because we are injecting the cells into the spinal cord above and below the injury site, we did not want to inject cells into the phrenic nucleus and potentially damage it. That is why we have limited the cases to C5 neurological level (the subjects should have good biceps).

    Let me illustrate. A person has an injury to the C5 spinal cord, that person may have a C4 neurological level (i.e. the lowest "intact" level). In such a case, we would be injecting into C3 or into the margin between C3 and C4 for the transplant above the injury site.

    We didn't want to take the risk of damaging the remaining phrenic nucleus. If our trials show that the cell transplants are safe and beneficial, we plan to propose a clinical trial for C4 tetraplegics or higher by injecting into the injury site and below the injury site but not above the injury site.

    Wise.

    dear Professor wise young my cervical fracture and c5c6 my neurological level and c5 my deltoids and biceps functions normally I born not sensitivity function motor below c6 that I could participate in clinical trials in the United States or in norway?

  2. #582
    dr wise,you said"not any significant change",You mean the chronic SCI trials plan have not changed or patients have not any recovery?

  3. #583
    so are we looking at more like 2013 for the US? whats the cut off criteria for injury date?

  4. #584
    Senior Member KIM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by east dragon View Post
    dr wise,you said"not any significant change",You mean the chronic SCI trials plan have not changed or patients have not any recovery?
    It could mean that no safety issues came a long , so far no complications. Next step effectiveness.

  5. #585
    Please stop with all these speculations. The trials are progressing. We are doing our very best to make sure that the data is collected and the trials are continuing as best as they can. It is too early to say anything about recovery. Wise.

  6. #586
    Guys, you don't think the second something happens the good doctor won't share? Stop pestering the man.
    And the truth shall set you free.

  7. #587
    Everyone! Science is really slow and unpredictable. Particularly so when you are dealing with a subject matter that is still so much in its infancy. I do not believe there has yet been any FDA approved stem cell therapy for any sort of disease, with the possible exception of marrow transplants for Leukemia - which I think counts, technically.

    The point is that we haven't even managed to cure arthritis with stem cells, let alone the central nervous system. It is true that there are a myriad of studies that indicate a great potential, but there is then the very important question of how to best direct these versatile cells to do exactly what we need them to do.

    That is not a simple question to answer, and when we begin to find effective strategies, therein will lie the sea change. The problem with sea changes is that they are by nature unpredictable. Were they predictable, the sea change would happen somewhat sooner and it would be a bit less drastic.

    So any question about timeline is futile. Take the amount of uncertainty we have about when the aforementioned sea change will occur, multiply it by the uncertainty inherent to the FDA's lovely system and then multiply that by the uncertainty inherent to funding issues and I think you'll get a sense of how difficult it is to put a date on anything.

    Not that I'm not optimistic, I am. In fact I'm considering going into research on the issue just to get things moving along just that much faster. But at least personally, I find it exhausting to tick off the days towards the next arbitrary deadline, only to be disappointed when it comes and goes unmarked by success. At the very least, I'm sure Dr. Young is already losing hair over the piles of paperwork and bureaucracy he has to put up with to get anywhere in his field and the last thing he needs is the constant questioning. I assure you, when the results of his phase one trials are ready, they will be posted. Same goes for phase II and if he ever gets remarkable success, I assure you he will post that as well.

    Before he does, however, he will take his time. Why? Because as far as I can tell he is a talented and methodical researcher and he will make sure that positive results are indeed positive, and the speculation we are asking for is exactly the opposite of what is good for us. Unwarranted optimism will only serve to discredit his research.

    We can only trust that these guys are working hard and hope for the best. Don't like that? Then get in a classroom and go into research yourself.

    (Sorry, I just felt like ranting. And yes, this is only really directed at a few posts or maybe just general information. I'm fairly confident that most of you already know all of this.)
    L2 incomplete with a pretty bad limp since 10/31/2011.

  8. #588
    Senior Member lunasicc42's Avatar
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    shveddy, I totally understand what you are saying and are mostly right. All that said... You haven't even been injured a year yet and some people are going on years or decades.

    Believe me, I understand what you are getting at... Just a lot of desperate people
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  9. #589
    That's true. I can't fathom the desperation people must feel after so many years and even more so after worse injuries. I can only extrapolate from my own sense of desperation and try to be empathetic.

    So I think my previous post did come off a bit harsh, which I am prone to doing when I get frustrated. But I think the most important thing I am trying to convey in it all is simply the fact that if you take so much stock in the minute successes and halting improvements, you will only deepen your sense of desperation. Putting so much emotional investment in each step of the scientific drudgery is simply going to exhaust you more than is necessary.

    This is just a thought, but perhaps the more productive strategy would be to gain a deep understanding of the complexities so that when therapies do come about, you will be able to make a well informed decision about when would be the best time to jump on the bandwagon.

    I think I've seen it alluded to a bit, but something to keep in mind is that you may only get one shot at this stem cell thing. I doubt you can be like the Joan Rivers of spinal surgery and just come in for another procedure every time they come up with something interesting. So I think a very honest understanding of the shortcomings and promise of the field would serve one well to avoid dead ends that will sideline you when the real successes start coming through the pipeline.
    L2 incomplete with a pretty bad limp since 10/31/2011.

  10. #590
    Senior Member khmorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shveddy View Post
    I think I've seen it alluded to a bit, but something to keep in mind is that you may only get one shot at this stem cell thing. I doubt you can be like the Joan Rivers of spinal surgery and just come in for another procedure every time they come up with something interesting.
    That's interesting. Did you read that in a research paper or is that
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    speculations
    I don't want to be harsh either, but speculation comes in lots of flavors.
    Last edited by khmorgan; 03-05-2012 at 06:41 PM.

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