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Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by lunasicc42 View Post
    Dr. Rader is medra clinic... He is a scam


    hello everybody,
    has anybody heard of www.sinostemcells.com ? or is it a scam too?
    they say they are the only hospital that has CT-guided intraspinal stem cell transplant. does anyone know if thats something new?

    Dr.wise do you know anything about sinostemcell and their procedure?

    thank you

  2. #32
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    Dr. Young, THANK YOU! You have been, and continue to be, our guiding light and our shining star! I cannot imagine going thru this nightmare without you and all that you do for us. May God bless you and may He always keep you safe!

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by td_trust View Post
    hello everybody,
    has anybody heard of www.sinostemcells.com ? or is it a scam too?
    they say they are the only hospital that has CT-guided intraspinal stem cell transplant. does anyone know if thats something new?

    Dr.wise do you know anything about sinostemcell and their procedure?

    thank you
    td_trust,

    This is the web site of the Stem Cell Transplant Department of the General Hospital of the Chinese People's Armed Police Forces. i have met the head of this group and they are a serious group, sort of like an Army hospital but for the police. They are funded by the government but are apparently providing unproven therapies for pay.

    I am not sure why they are allowed to do this. For example, the major military hospitals that are part of ChinaSCINet (including the Kunming Army General Hospital, the Beijing Army General Hospital, the PLA-301, the Third Military Medical University in Chongqing, and the Fourth Military Medical University in Xi'an) are not allowed to take care of non-Chinese citizens.

    It is clear, however, that this group is well-equipped and part of a hospital that serves the Armed Police Forces. Starting perhaps a decade ago, the Chinese government began to allow many of their military hospitals to take care of private patients but not foreigners. Some of the military hospitals, however, have bought private hospitals and use them for foreigners.

    Regarding the claim of CT-guided transplants, many places in China currently have CT-guided devices. We discussed the possibility of using such an approach and dismissed it for intraspinal transplants because we felt that this method allows too much of a risk of penetrating surface veins on the spinal cord. However, they decided to use it.

    They are transplanting mesenchymal stem cells from bone marrow and umbilical cord blood. They are treating patients with spinal cord injury, cerebral palsy, brain injury, and stroke.

    Wise.

  4. #34
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    Dr. Wise,
    If they are transplanting Mesenchymal stem cells , have their been any news on the outcomes? Is this treatment fairly new and that is why we do not see any positive or negative results? Just wondering. It seems like the chinese government injects millions into their research vs. the United states.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeMonte View Post
    Dr. Wise,
    If they are transplanting Mesenchymal stem cells , have their been any news on the outcomes? Is this treatment fairly new and that is why we do not see any positive or negative results? Just wondering. It seems like the chinese government injects millions into their research vs. the United states.
    The problem with providing therapies for pay is that they cannot randomize patients and do clinical trials. So, they have not published their results and we don't know whether the treatments are effective. There is also quite a lot of controversy concerning what the mesenchymal stem cells are in cord blood and bone marrow. Every place has a different method of isolating the cells and there are no reliable markers of these stem cells. Wise.

  6. #36
    Dr. Young

    After you've achieved good results with ChinaSCINet after phase 2 or 3 is it possible of going to China and pay for the therapie as a foreigner.
    if not after how much time if the results are good, would be this possible to allowed foreingners get the therapie



    Thanks in advance
    keep (rolling) Walking

    Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Walker View Post
    Dr. Young

    After you've achieved good results with ChinaSCINet after phase 2 or 3 is it possible of going to China and pay for the therapie as a foreigner.
    if not after how much time if the results are good, would be this possible to allowed foreingners get the therapie



    Thanks in advance
    Johnnie, once the therapies have been shown to be safe and beneficial, they should be available everywhere around the world. As you know, we are planning to do trials in the United States, India, and Europe as well. So, it should spread quite quickly. I am of sure that there will be private hospitals in China offering the therapy as well.

    Regarding the timing, I am not sure. In the United States, if the results are convincingly positive and the treatments are safe, the FDA has a category of approval called compassionate use (for conditions where there is no other therapy and I think that spinal cord injury would qualify) where approval could be given in a year. In China, it may take longer.

    On the other hand, I expect that there will be many purveyors of umbilical cord blood cell therapies in places like India, Caribbean, Mexico, and China. Many people think that they can isolate umbilical cord blood mononuclear cells and lithium is easy to give. In fact, there are doctors now offering bone marrow cells and lithium in these places, but most clinics are giving the cells intrathecally, which I don't think is the best way.

    If it were my body, I would want to best and reliable source of cells. The problem with all these non-accredited sources is you have no way of knowing how good their cells are. Be very careful. They will claim to you that they have GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) laboratories and so on. Make sure that the cells are well-vetted before allowing them to inject cells into your body.

    Most of third world medical tourism clinics don't have access to large libraries of high quality umbilical cord blood for HLA-matching. So, they often use non-HLA-matched cells. Most don't know how to isolate mononuclear cells from frozen cord blood units (it is quite difficult). Most of them cannot guarantee even the sterility of the cells.

    We are working with the best company that we can find to provide us with HLA-matched cells under the highest accreditation standards. If the trial shows that the therapy works, the company can ship HLA-matched cells to anywhere in the world as soon as the therapy is approved. Other companies will be able to do so as well, in time.

    So, if our phase 3 trial starts in 2011 and shows that the combination UCBMC+lithium therapy is safe and restores function by 2012, I think that the therapy will be approved in the U.S. and China by 2013. But, please be aware that there are many potential causes of delay. We cannot be too careful in terms of safety and making sure that everything is done right.

    It is also possible that the therapy will not do as much as we hope. In that case, we go on to other therapies. I know that it is hard to wait and very frustrating but I am heartened that many others trials are starting. Our goal is to get as many trials going as possible. Sooner or later one or more therapies will work. That is when the world will begin seriously investing in the cure.

    Wise.

  8. #38
    Wise, imagine the differnce this will bring to lives of thousand upon thousands. Let's hope that it works and all can benefit.

    keeping on

  9. #39
    Senior Member Geoffrey's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Wise Young;1254972]

    1. Dr. Leung and Dr. Poon talked about the surgery, pointing out that two small laminectomies above and below the injury are very unlikely to harm the spinal cord or to produce instability. However, it is essential that they can get good MRI images of the spinal cord to determine the best place to operate. As I have indicated here before, direct visual inspection of the spinal cord at the time of surgery is the safest way to inject cells into the spinal cord.
    2. We emphasized that we will be using HLA-matched umbilical cord blood cells and that the cells are transplanted into the spinal cord. I pointed out that the reason why umbilical cord blood cells may have not been particularly effective in other places such as Shenzhen, India, and other medical tourism clinics may be because they have been injecting non-matched cells intravenously or intrathecally. In my opinion, the cells must reach and get into the spinal cord to be beneficial. If one does not use HLA-matched cells, the cells will be immune-rejected rapidly by the body. To inject non-HLA matched cells intravenously or intrathecally, as they are doing in Beike Biotech and other places, is a waste of time and money. )



    Dr. Young
    When I got out of the Foothills Hospital in Calgary at the end of 2005 I started procedures to go to China with Beike Biotech. I spoke to the "sales reps" a number of times and emails went back and forth. Then I started to ask a few tough questions of them. One was "If the procedure is unsuccessful will having it negate me from entering into clinic studies in Canada if they start them in the near future?" (They came back saying I would have no problems what so ever. Which was not what I was told by a few doctors of research in Alberta. I was told that could not be included in any studies).
    That alone would have stopped me from going over but the next questions did it for sure.
    "Exactly what safety procedures are taken to ensure the stem cells that will be injected into my body will be compatible with me?"
    "At what points in my spinal cord are the stem cells injected?"
    "I have spoken to a past client of yours and no one has followed up with him after six months so as reps for Beike Biotech how can you put a success percentage on operations when there is no follow-up?"

    My questions were never answered, my future emails never returned. I was obviously a client they did not want because they realized that taking my $30,000 and not delivering a successful outcome would have cost them.

    I am pleased that you are over there working with them to help us all.
    Geoffrey

  10. #40
    thank you for your reply, Dr, Young as always

    but what about the people in Europe and other parts of the world where clinical trials are not busy at the time, ho long they should wait, Can we not in the meantime go to USA or China to private clinics when the therapies have been approven, so that we dont have to wait one or two or maybe more years, than the people in USA and China,

    ''every day is ti long belive me''

    tanks again
    Last edited by Johnnie Walked; 09-07-2010 at 04:52 PM.
    keep (rolling) Walking

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