Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #2461
    Hi Jim,
    in your US IIb Trial the enrolment is open to foreign people?
    Thanks.

    Ivano

  2. #2462
    Quote Originally Posted by taymas View Post
    Would be great to hear from Jim as well in regards to cost, but I imagine it's too soon to run the numbers.
    Regards
    We are estimating the cost for the Phase IIb trial will be $150K per patient. If I had an Asia A injury and unlimited funds I would wait until the results of the Phase IIb US/India trials are available. The results of the ChinaSCINet Phase II must be repeated. If approved, insurance will pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz19 View Post
    As a follow-up, the money that was raised w/ the 'just a dollar a day' campaign. Was this earmarked or set aside for the upcoming US trials?
    After working and helping you on the past webs I know that there was a significant amount of money raised. Will there be a new campaign or will this be reinvigorated?

    I would like to share this news with all the people who I personally reached out for donations years ago and to let them know the results. Many have been asking for years and it's great to finally have some news.
    Hey Chaz, money for the trials has been earmarked, investors have stepped up, and there is a plan underway to fund many future trials. We can't let $ hold up doing what needs to be done.

    We recently sent out our Spring mailing which you will receive shortly (Bulk mail moves slowly). Wise wrote a complete summary that is perfect for your supporters.

    Quote Originally Posted by ivanoperetti View Post
    Hi Jim,
    in your US IIb Trial the enrolment is open to foreign people?
    Thanks.
    Ivano
    Ivano, I'm not sure yet.

    The Phase IIb trial will consist of only 27 subjects, I don't expect we will have any trouble filling the spots. Remember, a critical part of any trial is follow-up visits at different time points. Subject would have to pay to stay in US during the trial, also to come back a few times.

  3. #2463
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    If approved, insurance will pay.

    What makes you sound so sure Jim? Private insurance, medicaid, medicare? I'm sure this would have to be a case by case basis, right? A guy like myself where they basically pay for part of my catheter supply and 2 check up visits a year, what makes them want to spend $150k on a therapy that could go wrong and cost more to save my life?
    Thank you for replying as much as you can. If anyone else has more experience or knowledge on this subject, please reply.

  4. #2464
    I believe as part of Michigan's Auto No-Fault law, the cost to cover such a trial would be covered. I had also read several years ago that my health insurance would also cover the cost. I may need to see if that is true, but I may be fortunate enough to have two possible sources that would cover the costs.
    DaDutchman
    C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

  5. #2465
    Senior Member Stormycoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    B-vILLE Oregon
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Hey Chaz,

    To my knowledge there has been no change in hand/finger dexterity.
    In the upcoming IIb trials the subjects will be using stim units on hands/ankles to promote return of function.l
    I believe all muscles must be exercised in order to reestablish connections to return function.
    For example, the eight patients in Hong Kong received cell transplants and no intense physical therapy/6-6-6 walking program. None of them had return of function despite showing growth across the injury site at
    one year. Exercise is a must, now we need to figure out how much is necessary.
    Wow, exercise-stimulation a must was/has been an established factoid for years now..
    That's really unfortunate for both party's involved. Study & patients..hmm.
    I find that really bizarre though with visible growth/connection, not an iota of anything was seen as far as return..that's the Baseline/Science Fiction/now Fact achievement reached that forces re-animation?!

    And from the nature of the injury/levels/ with quads, hands/fingers come in @ C-7/ isn't it?
    Even w/o vigorous exercise, it is an intricate part but not a major muscle, that would feasibly be the first enacted area to see response w/ new nerve growth..
    Doesn't that make sense?
    Referncing quadrapalegia..
    Aren't you gonna see a say Top to Bottom sense of Return since it's a level based physiology system..precisely where your injured is precisely where muscle groups/organs entact..??

    Actually I've maintained that view since those semi-new Restorative Therapy bikes came out.. when brand new a quadrapalegia girl was using one religiously weekly and quoted was, " slowly were seeing her hands unfreezing"

    Guess more time0 study will tell..or a new bridge is a new bridge. Everything's feasibly online, just needs to be re-woken/ animated..all at once through full on exercise regiment like being discussed...
    Last edited by Stormycoon; 05-20-2016 at 04:57 PM.
    I am not your rolling wheels
    I am the highway
    I am not your carpet ride
    I am the sky
    I am not your blowing wind
    I am the lightning
    I am not your autumn moon
    I am the night, the night..

  6. #2466
    When I was doing OT within a year after being injured, we concentrated on getting my hand and fingers working. At that time I asked my therapist about my chances in getting full hand function. She stated that I would probably walk before I regained complete hand function. She said the reason was because there are so many nerves and muscles in the hand compared to the legs. I was also informed that return of function did not necessarily happen in a top down order. One PT therapist cited a patient of hers that could walk, but did not only not have hand function, but did not have sensation in their leg. I was wondering if the nerves in the spine reconnected like wires in an electrical cabinet. You know, red to red, yellow to yellow, blue to blue, etc. and if so, how did the body know which ones to connect to. To me that is the biggest mystery of how stem cells will aid in correctly connecting the nerves on each side of the damaged area.
    DaDutchman
    C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

  7. #2467
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchman View Post
    I was wondering if the nerves in the spine reconnected like wires in an electrical cabinet. You know, red to red, yellow to yellow, blue to blue, etc. and if so, how did the body know which ones to connect to. To me that is the biggest mystery of how stem cells will aid in correctly connecting the nerves on each side of the damaged area..
    That's a great question. I don't think scientist know that either. First is how to regenerate and then make the right connections. That's the whole puzzle I guess. Maybe stem cells in their genes have that recognition. There are clinical studies in humans with different kinds of stem cells and I assume that wrong connections might have negative reactions from the body from pain to tumor but none of these studies have been stopped due to any adverse reaction. Hope nerves recognize the correct nerves across the injury site.

  8. #2468
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    2,534
    One might think that wrong connections could be trained owing to neuroplasticity in the brain...?

  9. #2469
    Quote Originally Posted by Mize View Post
    One might think that wrong connections could be trained owing to neuroplasticity in the brain...?
    Hope you are right and what you say makes sense

  10. #2470
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    2,534
    To be honest the improvements in walking scores don't persuade me. I'm an ASIA A, complete, T7 and I'm now walking with parallel bars with one PT assisting and afos. That's a pretty decent walking score. I guess I'm saying that it's possible that much or even most of the improvements aren't from stem cells but rather the intense PT effort. I'll be far more optimistic if there's solid evidence of axon growth, bridging and reconnection.

Similar Threads

  1. ChinaSCINET Update
    By Schmeky in forum Cure
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-16-2008, 06:25 PM
  2. ChinaSCINET on Schedule?
    By Schmeky in forum Cure
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-27-2008, 05:53 AM
  3. Dr. Young and ChinaSciNet
    By Imight in forum Cure
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-14-2008, 12:51 AM
  4. ChinaSCINET Schedule
    By Schmeky in forum Cure
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-11-2007, 04:30 AM
  5. ChinaSCINET, On Schedule?
    By Schmeky in forum Cure
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 01-30-2007, 03:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •