Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #2081
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrington314mx View Post
    Makes me wonder how their every day lives have changed, even if they havent got far enough to walk with zero assistance. For example, driving a car normally without hand controls. Im sure theres tons of little things like this that we just dont always think about but would be a nice improvement in our lives.
    Maybe this can help clarify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Cspine,

    We observed that patients showed improved locomotor scores but did not improve their motor or sensory scores. Motor scores represent voluntary activation of muscles on a scale of 0-5, where 0 indicates no movement when the subject is asked to move the muscle, 1 indicates trace or flicker movement, 2 indicates muscle movement only when the influence of gravity is removed, 3 indicates ability to counteract the effects of gravity, 4 indicates ability to move muscle against resistance but not normal, 5 indicates normal muscle strength.

    The walking is voluntary in the sense that the subjects are initiating and maintaining walking. Many of the subjects are supporting most of their weight (they are leaning on a device that has wheels on it). The walking is also functional in the sense that some subjects taking steps and moving around with devices, something that they could not before the therapy. People are stepping with their legs even though they may NOT show improvements in their ability to wiggle their toes (extensor hallucis longus), move their ankles (anterior tibialis/gastrocnemius), straighten their knees (quadriceps), or flex their hips (psoas) on command.

    Many people who have recovered walking after spinal cord injury will tell you that they can walk but they don't have good control of the individual muscles or have feelings in their feet. This is common.

    Wise.
    I think this precludes any activity that requires ability to voluntarily lift / move your leg muscles, i.e. driving.

  2. #2082
    What was the post injury time range and average of the patients? Were any of the subjects able to get from seating to standing on there own? After the patients have successful regeneration to the CPG I wonder what needs to be done to allow them to control their muscles on command. Could it be that its simply not possible, that quite frankly the connections die after not being used, because of injuries like these?

  3. #2083
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMcM View Post
    What was the post injury time range and average of the patients? Were any of the subjects able to get from seating to standing on there own? After the patients have successful regeneration to the CPG I wonder what needs to be done to allow them to control their muscles on command. Could it be that its simply not possible, that quite frankly the connections die after not being used, because of injuries like these?
    If I recall correctly, well over 7 or so years post injury.

    Nowhere Man found a good answer by quoting Dr Wise. It seems we won't be able to stand using our lower half. We will have to use upper boddy and practice stepping, and trigger the involuntary rhythm as said by Jim above.

    I'm still trying to wade through 200 pages of this thread to find answers. Why not start a new thread with misconceptions cleared, without ambiguous answers. I am getting to the point where heck I'll do it myself, start a thread specific to this trial.

    Regards

  4. #2084
    Really excited about these trials. I realized thta we have to be patient but at least the path is clear.
    Just wanted to also ask about the quadriplegics. How are they able to use their hands and arms to hold on to the walker when they are initiating the walking? What kind of improvements has occureed to the upper body?
    This is really important because it will clear things up when it comes to walking and quadriplegics.
    Again I want to thank Dr.Young and everyone involved in this trial for their great efforts.

  5. #2085
    Quote Originally Posted by taymas View Post

    I'm still trying to wade through 200 pages of this thread to find answers. Why not start a new thread with misconceptions cleared, without ambiguous answers. I am getting to the point where heck I'll do it myself, start a thread specific to this trial.

    Regards
    I know what you mean. Ive read it all before but would like to go back through. Updating the first post in this thread with the most relevant info/pics/videos would be very nice and helpful.

  6. #2086
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMcM View Post
    After the patients have successful regeneration to the CPG I wonder what needs to be done to allow them to control their muscles on command. Could it be that its simply not possible, that quite frankly the connections die after not being used, because of injuries like these?
    taymas is correct, 7 years was average, 17 was the longest I believe.

    Tom, in order to get individual muscles working again won't targeted exercises be necessary for each muscle group in order to establish new connections?

    Quote Originally Posted by taymas View Post
    I'm still trying to wade through 200 pages of this thread to find answers. Why not start a new thread with misconceptions cleared, without ambiguous answers. I am getting to the point where heck I'll do it myself, start a thread specific to this trial.
    Regards
    We really can't be 100% clear until the paper is published and the data is available. It's just more speculation until then.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrTerell View Post
    Really excited about these trials. I realized that we have to be patient but at least the path is clear.
    Just wanted to also ask about the quadriplegics. How are they able to use their hands and arms to hold on to the walker when they are initiating the walking? What kind of improvements has occurred to the upper body?
    This is really important because it will clear things up when it comes to walking and quadriplegics.
    Attached are a few picks of the rolling walkers used in Kunming. (These are pics from when I visited, not of clinical trial subjects.) For those without hand function their hands/wrists are secured with cloth strips. Most quad subjects in the trial had improved SCIM scores in dressing and transferring which would suggest upper body improvement.

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  7. #2087
    cool parking lot : )
    www.MiracleofWalk.com

    Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only contrary
    to what we know about nature
    Saint Augustine

  8. #2088
    Quote Originally Posted by comad View Post
    cool parking lot : )
    I took the picture of the parking lot after lunch and their nap, just prior to the afternoon walking session.

  9. #2089

    paper publish

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I took the picture of the parking lot after lunch and their nap, just prior to the afternoon walking session.
    Hey Jim,Do you have any sense as to when (roughly) are they going to publish the papers? Is it most likely after completion of phase 3 trial ? Because if Dr. Wise is hoping for a "Compassionate Use" approval, with the phase 3 going on, he must atleast publish the papers. Was just curious !

  10. #2090
    Rahul, pretty sure the ChinaSCINet Phase II paper will be published by the end of this year. Compassionate Use (Expanded Use Access) can be approved for use by qualified doctors after a phase II has proven safety & efficacy, there is no alternate therapy, and the condition is serious (i.e. life-threatening or severely disabling). If everything falls into place, this can happen next year. There is much to do.

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