Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #1781
    Nowhereman, everything what is going on right now is dangerous because of false hope....it has nothing to do with regeneration or not. Yes you can tell with the informations we have so far that there are no functional connections!!!

  2. #1782
    Journals don't contact researchers. It doesn't work that way. No matter what the field of science, or how famous a research project is, researchers submit their projects to journals to be published.

  3. #1783
    If you make a claim about something, the burden of proof is on you. KK11 is claiming no connections have been made when he has no data to back it up. I may have no data to show that blue M&Ms don't recover walking, but you also haven't published anything yet, not to mention haven't shown ANY evidence. Wise has at least shown videos of the surgery, videos of the walking, videos of ASIA exams, and DTI images.
    It may be up to you to prove that blue M&Ms recover walking, but its up to me to not make any conclusions of my own until I see the published paper, or at least examine your evidence.

  4. #1784
    [SIZE=13px]What are you talking about spreading false hope? How is he spreading false hope?

    Dr. Young reported on what he saw, while relying on his 40 years of experience to explain what it means.[/SIZE]
    75% of Chronic ASIA A patients are walking, that is a fact. I and others here have seen the walking videos, and DTI images of growth across the injury site, it is real. You 2 are unreal and should change your screen names to doubting thomas I & II.

  5. #1785
    We have been trying to close the database (which must be done before the data can be analyzed). Thousands of data have been collected on each patient. Each data have to be checked against paper and electronic records, validated, and locked. We are analyzing the data, writing the paper, and deciding which journal to submit the article to. When it is accepted by the journal, people will be able to see the paper and all the details. Wise.

  6. #1786
    Jim you should not tell me what to do....so tell me Jim , why do you and others have the privilege to see MRI's and videos and we dont??

  7. #1787
    You are right that KK11 can not say for 100% sure that regeneration has not occurred. But he, and I, can with 99.9% certainty, that it has not. There are many possible, and more likely, reasons as to why 75% of the patients can activate cpg. Remember, Dr. Young even says that in complete injured SCI there are still remaining intact axons. Given how unprecedented and impossible that kind of regeneration has been; until it is PROVEN that regeneration is the mechanism it should be presumed that it is not the cause.

    I'm not just picking on Chinasci. This goes for any potential treatment.

  8. #1788
    Based on how ground breaking, first time in history, that kind of regeneration would be, and yet at the same time, extremely…extremely unlikely, it is best to not even discuss that as the likely/possible mechanism of cpg recovery. It’s not fair to the people who don’t really understand SCI research all that much and put their hope on the line. If there comes a time when it can be undeniably proven that regeneration is the cause, then that should be made public.

    To be clear, I’m not criticizing Chinasci for how long the results are taking to be released. I understand that can take a long time. In fact, I think it's a good thing.

    Science can not exist without doubt. That is the whole point of the scientific method! To prove beyond doubt. This is not a church... being criticized for expressing doubt.

    -- Doubting Thomas I

  9. #1789
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
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    KK11, hop on a plane to Newark, NJ and grab a bus to Rutgers for the next First Friday Open House and you can see the same videos, pictures, slides and how they were obtained as I did less than 2 weeks ago. If you don't understand something Wise can explain it or others can. But even at the open houses they don't tell you exactly how they got from point A to point B. Just check out a chalkboard in that lab. I don't understand most of what they do. But they do show the cells being delivered by the most high tech needle I have ever seen. And as someone who had serious doubts that umbilical cord cells would do anything including further damage I was very surprised. No damage but actual weight bearing and working hip flexors. The knees being watched for buckling is most likely, in my opinion, due to how big the quadriceps muscles are and how long it will take to get them innervated enough and the muscles strong enough so all that recover can use canes rather than walkers.

    No longer a doubting Thomasina

  10. #1790
    Thanks for the clarification - what you say makes more sense, and I see where you're coming from in presuming that regeneration is not the cause of 75% of patients doing minimally assisted walking. You're right that even for most complete injuries, there are still intact axons that pass through or around the injury site. This is why the intensive walking therapy alone might be enough to get people to the point of KLS IV, without the surgery.

    However, intensive walking therapy alone, whether at Kunming, Tongren, or any other activity-based walking therapy place in the world, for that matter, has never gotten 75% of people to walking at a KLS IV level. This phase II study is the first time this kind of success has been seen. Given that the only difference in this study was a laminectomy and UMBC surgery, is it that unreasonable to construe that the cells did something?

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