Thread: ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #1771
    tomsonite,you cant compare learning of movement on people with SCI and without. Of course people with SCI have to learn it all over again but when you completly lost the ability which you have learned you cant speak about a ´´function´´ you have regained or a recovery. When the CNS has formed new connections the brain would be able to initiate movements you have learned whenever where ever you want. Thats a function or recovery. KK11

  2. #1772
    KK11, then how do you explain people coming back to the hospital and re-gaining their previous level of walking (which took them several months to get to) in a matter of 2 weeks? The connection is there, but if it goes unused, it becomes weaker, possibly to the point that the function is no longer visible.
    Wise has said these people re-gained walking with no change in ASIA motor scores. The gained walking ability is likely very dependent on body position and sensory input. These people are capable of walking when they are upright and have weight on their feet. If they cannot safely do this at home, then they will not retain this ability after days, weeks, or months of non-use. The fact that these people were brought back to the hospital and then re-gained walking in a very short time suggests that some kind of connection was made.

    Keep in mind that I'm not commenting on how practical this walking is. I realize that if you gain the ability to walk long distances in a hospital with a rolling walker and the aide of someone behind you with ropes at the knees, this type of walking is not very practical for most. Wise has said there are people who walk at KLS IV who can also walk shorter distances independently with a 4-point walker, so maybe some of those people could walk at home, but for whatever reason, it is not practical for them to do so. The walking might not be practical to use at home, but it does not mean a new connection hasn't been made.

    If there is an axon connecting the brain to a part of the body, then motor learning is motor learning, regardless of the condition of your body. SCI would make it harder for movements to be learned and retained, but if there is a connection, the principles are the same.

  3. #1773
    Its too early to say that! why? because we have no data!!! Wise just delays his comments on the data month per month thats the problem. We only know that they reached that kind walking without any informations. So therefore you only can say as someone who is not involved in the trial that there are no connections in the spinal cord with this ´´data´´ we have.
    We still have to wait what they will release if they have the data. But it takes way too long and Wise didnt put himself in a good situation with the fact , telling us (SCI people) that they had that kind of recovery without any additional data depending on average age of the participants , spasms scale development , MRI controls , general conditions of the participants , decrease or increase of pathological reflexes and so on and so on......

    This few sentenceses which they brought out arent enough.....

  4. #1774
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
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    KK11, the kind of information you want would be based on first look dat a and also is still embargoed if they want any decent journal to publish the findings. Good journals are more likely to be picked up by the general press and lead to more awareness of SCI and where research stands.
    And the home environment is much different than rehabs. In China the average home is most likely too small for most to continue the same training and to strengthen both the new connections and the muscles. I was able after years of assisted sit ups to sit up using only my stomach muscles from supine and kept that after PT until I was in bed for a sore for almost 3 months. There is no way my husband's back could handle helping me with assisted sit ups now. Insurance didn't want to hear about it either. The trials will show DTI images from what I understand and all surgeries were filmed.

    Take a look someday at how long over projected endpoints other inventions take that are much easier to do like build a Dreamliner that is safe or figure out and dig the Panama Canal. Even the vaccine for polio took over 35 years with a good deal of Americans behind it. The paper work is maddening but work continues while the papers are pushed.

  5. #1775
    Quote Originally Posted by KK11
    Its too early to say that! why? because we have no data!!! ... you only can say as someone who is not involved in the trial that there are no connections in the spinal cord with this ´´data´´ we have....

    This few sentenceses which they brought out arent enough.....
    You seem to be contradicting yourself, KK11 - you are making a lot of conclusions yourself for someone who is pointing out there is no published data yet. Where is your data saying there are no new connections in the spinal cord?

  6. #1776
    The burden of proof is not on KK11, it's on Wise. Claims of even possible regeneration are dangerous to make because it breeds false hope.

    I am doing an experiment in my basement. I'm feeding paralyzed rats blue m&m's. They have recovered walking. Where is your data saying i'm wrong?

  7. #1777
    data will be out in another 6 months LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #1778
    Data will be out in anorher 6 months LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #1779
    If we are lucky.....

  10. #1780
    Sue you can't tell me that A man like Wise has to fall on his knees and go to every journal and says please publish the results of my trial. If the result have such an impact everyone think it has than journals will contact Wise?! I bet that they know about the trial. Even when it takes place in China...

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