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Thread: meeting with Carl C. Kao

  1. #111
    Senior Member rdf's Avatar
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    Maybe so, seneca. If that's true, then I apologize. But don't you think they'd let us know who was posting? It's just confusing as hell, and I don't even know why I care, except many people want information on what is going on down there concerning the therapy. There cannot be any room for ambiguity or falsehoods when somebody is considering an excursion that costs so much, and an operation that is so invasive.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    Birde's profile says 'Female.' If Birde isn't paralyzed, what are we to make of her discussing her 1 year anniversary?

    http://carecure.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28324

    Now, as to Birde & Jim posting under the name 'Birde', if that's the case, it's a big oversight on their part not to say who was posting when. (Who's Jim? I'm missing something.) I didn't think about any of this until all this confusion about Birde started, so I did a quick review of Birde's posts here. I haven't found any indication it was anybody other than Birde having the operation, until I read posts where Birde is saying "we" instead of "I". For example: "we have very large, strong, easy to see movement. Toes on both feet can and do move on command, as does the feet and thighs!!! The abdomen is stronger and sensory level has dropped down about an inch on the right side and 2 inches on the left side already!"

    I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but I admit this stuff is confusing. Hopefully, Birde can clear this up soon.

    ~Rus

    "Because you're not promised tomorrow." ~ Stuck Mojo

  3. #113
    Senior Member giambjj's Avatar
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    Birdie

    maybe she was typing for Jim (T10), because he did not want to type it him selfe, or was too busy?

    JJG

  4. #114
    JJG:

    This will be my last post on the issue of Birde. It really is conjecture to write that "maybe she was typing for Jim". This whole situation is awfully strange. Birde was a high volume "poster" on SpineWire and on this new forum, all you have to do is look at her numbers. I think that she( or he) was posting more than Dr. Young, Da, Sue, and some of the others. Now, we are reading her posts and trying to find if she used the words "We, or I". This whole thing is starting to become an "Agatha Christy: Who Done It"mystery.

    My theory based upon reading many of her posts is that she came on to SpineWire, went "gangbusters" and many of us responded to her as a female with a spinal cord injury. Birde never gave us any cause to think otherwise and she portrayed herself as a female with an SCI.

    I believe that she invented this entire persona of being a woman with a spinal cord injury, and somehow she lost touch with reality. I understand that Birde and Jim have been back in the United States since Friday. I'm fairly certain that they are both reading these posts and are probably trying to figure out a way to explain how all of this has happened. Personally, I think that this is going to be difficult to explain but I am willing to keep my mind open. I also think it is quite possible that we may never hear from Birde again but she may return with a new identity and start posting again.

    (For anyone who is seriously thinking about going to see Dr. Kao, there is now an aura of suspicion regarding the work he is doing in Ecuador.)

    JJG, you were in Ecuador with them and you claim to be their friend. Why don't you pick up the telephone and ask them "What is going on?"

    There is a saying in Washington, D.C. "Delay equals death!" I guess Gary Condit found that out too late.

    PN

  5. #115
    Senior Member rdf's Avatar
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    Well said, Paul. Couldn't agree more.

  6. #116

    WHO IN THE HELL ARE YOU?

    Well, well, well....I (we) leave the country for a few wks. and all hell breaks loose!!! Reading the posts here, makes me (us) sound like I (we) have multiple personalities!!! Perhaps I (we) do!!! ************************************************** ************************************************** Let's begin with why "Birde" has not responded before this time...simply put, I (we) have had more important things (priorities) to contend with (i.e. our children who we have not seen in almost 3wks, family and friends to see and talk with, and certainly the fact of just having a major operation to rehabilitate from.). So, I (we) apologize for not posting sooner. ************************************************** ************************************************** Enquirering minds want to know...."WHO in the hell is "Birde"?" Never mind about " HOW is "Birde"?" That's fine, since none of you are apparently interested in HOW the operation turned out, I (we) will not bore you with any of the details. So, you all want to know WHO "Birde" is? ************************************************** ************************************************** When I (we) came to cando at first, and now to carecure, I (we) were under the impression that it is/was fine to remain anonymous if one was so inclined. Perhaps by making a decision to have a procedure done that is not fully accepted in the world and deciding to share that decision with others who are going through the same trials and tribulations (i.e. SCI related issues) that I (we) am (are) going through, and to ask for their input and views ...perhaps that meant that my (our) ananimity would be at risk. I (we) are (or should I (we) say ) WERE fairly private individuals in our community. We did not have any newspaper stories or interviews about us regarding the injury, and/or about the trip to Ecuador, the procedure, or anything. This was not because of any embarrassment on my (our) part, frankly it was to protect my (our) family, mainly our children! They (the children) are still very young and they do not need the added stress in their lives, nor do my (our) other family members. ************************************************** ************************************************** I (we) also thought about the fact that Dr. Kao is only human, as we all are. By remaining anonymous I (we) felt safe in our own minds, that if by chance someone decided to go to Ecuador and have this procedure done by Dr. Kao....and part of their reason for going was because of reading "Birde's" posts, well the idea that something at some time might go wrong (any operation has it's risks), or that they did not get the results that they had hoped for...I (we) did not want people blaming us or knocking down our door or calling us and putting any of the blame on us. Perhaps that is/was selfish of me (us), but as I (we) explained before, our children and their feelings and concerns come first and formost. ************************************************** ************************************************** I (we) never thought that anyone would: A.) post private pictures of me (us) on a public website without my (our) permission. B.) come back from Ecuador and openly tell others, again, without my (our) permission , who I (we) are! The thought of that offends me (us) to no end!!! As if I (we) would or have ever done that! As I (we) stated before though, I (we) should have anticipated that, and alas, I (we) did not. People are uncaring to others privacey. People are selfish and nonchalant when it comes to other individuals....that I (we) supose is just plain human nature. I (we) are not, nor did I (we) ever, trying to "pull the wool" over anyones eyes. I (we) never told untruths regarding Dr. Kao or his work. Truth be told , there was never a false post regarding me (our) injury and or feelings. Some things were withheld or changed around a tad( again to protect our children and our idendity in our small community), as all of you do on a daily basis with all your posts. ************************************************** ************************************************** I (we) have never questioned WHO you really are. I (we) never imagined that I (we)would be "hung on a cross" for public persicution....it never occured to me (us)!!! It is truely sad that all it took was one individual to post one or two sentances (that by the way are wrong), and everyone is screaming from the roof tops that I (we) should be burned at the stake!!!! ************************************************** ************************************************** So, with that, I (we) will explain who the hell "Birde" is........"Birde" is a fictitious name, a handle, a pen name (as are many of your "names"). The reason that female shows on the profile, and the reason that a female was injured was in fact my husbands (not boyfriends) post or idea to try and keep the local SCI individuals in our community from catching on to who he (we) were/are (for the reasons that I (we) explained earlier). "Birde" is Robin and Jim, plain and simple...I am plain he is simple. I (we) should not have to explain any of this, as I (we) have never asked any of you to explain yourselves. ************************************************** ************************************************** I (we) am/are doing this to clear Dr. Kao and his name. JJG was in Ecuador, but had to leave early for work related causes and he did not have the opportunity to get to know everyone as well as the others did, thus the confusison as to "Ed" being my husband, or Jim being my boyfriend, and the entire "runforbear" VS. "Birde" issue. Everything regarding Dr. Kao that I have posted is true. He (Kao) could give a flying "f***" about what others think about him or his work. He is truely gifted at what he does, and that was proven in Ecuador to me, my husband, and all the other patients and their families while we were all there. ************************************************** ************************************************** I debated on whether or not to have "Birde" die in a plane crash (when I logged on this morning)....but I (we) are not that type of a person(s). We take full responsability for your confusion! ************************************************** ************************************************** I (We) will be forever greatful for what Dr. Kao did for us, for the friendships that were made while Ecuador with other SCI individuals and their families....they were individuals that truely cared about you and HOW you are/were and not about WHO you are/were. I (we) never once mentioned Barbra DeVine working with Dr. Kao because I (we) had not asked her if that was o.k. (I (we) were trying to respect her privacy)....SOMETHING that others should practice more often. Barbra is and was very open and honest in regards to her past work with Dr. Goldsmith, and the reason I (we) know that she is/was being honest is because her story is close (if not the same) as Dr. Goldsmiths as well as the same as the various press articles that were written regarding the entire subject. I (we) will also be forever greatful for Barbra's friendship , support, and expertise throughtout this entire alleviation in Ecuador! ************************************************** ************************************************** I (we) will not burden any of you with the procedure, the results, the trials and tribulations that we went through, as none of you have posted anything in regards to wanting to know any of that....I (we) have answered your questions in regards to to who we (I) are/am. I (we) will not attempt to offer any appologies, as I (we) do not feel that any of that is relavent....and frankly, I (we) don't feel that any of you would or could give a shit. The posts at carecure or spinewire or cando were more about WHAT we go through, live with, experiance... and NOT about WHO we are....or so I (we) thought. Robin & Jim (T10 level of injury) (injury date 07/29/00) ********(Are those names and injury facts sufficiant, or must I (we) also include my (our) last name, address, phone/fax, childrens names, social security number(s), place of birth, place of employment, date of birth, our yearly income .....)?

    [This message was edited by Birde on September 09, 2001 at 02:48 PM.]

  7. #117

    Sorry Robin or Jim

    Or whoever the one was posting this post.

    This is a Paragraph.

    Have you ever heard of a Paragraph?

    I do remember a post on Spinewire about how you fell off the back of you're husbands Motorcycle and became a Para, unfortunetly it cannot be retrieved though do to the fact that all the archives were lost. Maybe someday we will have access to these archives.

    Curtis

  8. #118
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    Protecting the privacy of yourselves and your children is completely understandable. You say you take full responsibility for out confusion, yet you are upset that we had questions. You wanted us to ask about the procedure, etc, but why would we ask that when we weren't even sure if any of this was on the up & up? I don't need to know anyone's names, but when you see ONE screen name, you assume you're posting a response to one person...a person with real concerns about stuff like their one-year anniversary, etc. Now, I find out I might have been responding to Robin or Jim on any given occasion. Can you understand how someone might feel like they've been played for a fool?

    I've been online since 1993, and I completely understand one's reasons for retaining anonymity, both for respectable reasons and non-respectable reasons. I've never felt like posing as a woman online, but some guys do it for fun, so whatever. The bottom line, in my humble opinion, is that you two could have easily posted as two different screen names and still protected your anonymity without leading to all this confusion. Your reasons for anonymity are respectable. I just have to shake my head about the way you went about it.

    Now, as for the procedure Jim went through, I commend both of you as a couple for going out on a limb for something that seems pretty risky without much promise for results. Now, you were obviously convinced the possibilities were worth the risk, so more power to you, and I hope it's everything and more that you had hoped for.

    As for the whole anonymity thing and screen names and message boards, I think many people see Spinewire, CanDo and CareCure as a bit different than your run-of-the-mill message board online. There are plenty of people who post here who I couldn't tell you if they're male or female, young or old, maybe not even their level of injury. I think it's just a simple matter of respect--I try not to pry, and if I ask someone something too personal, they can always say it's none of my business. But, "Birde" brought on extra scrutiny when offering information on Dr. Kao's surgery. Is it so obnoxious of us to start to question the validity of Birde's posts and whether the surgery even took place? I don't think so. Guys like "Ron" are examples of how people can use the anonymity of the web to be assholes, and the very anonymity used for protection of privacy (and rightly so) is what makes people raise an eyebrow when someone everyone assumed was one person, is actually a couple. I'm not saying Robin & Jim were playing games with us for kicks, but it's not a big leap to come to that conclusion.

    So, everyone take a deep breath and try and see this whole thing from different perspectives. Not many people like the idea of someone pretending to be paralyzed as an online game, and people here started to think this was going on. Jim & Robin have every right to protect their privacy & their kids' privacy, I just think it wasn't the best way to do it, in my opinion. Is it so crazy that I was scratching my head when I read posts from Birde that use "we" out of the blue when I always thought I was offering words of encouragement to one individual? I don't think so. OK, now I think I'm rambling so, I'll shut up.

    ~Rus

    "Because you're not promised tomorrow." ~ Stuck Mojo

    [This message was edited by Scorpion on September 09, 2001 at 08:11 PM.]

  9. #119

    "I debated on whether or not to have Birde Die in a Plane Crash this mourning when I logged on"

    Thats the fun thing about the internet, Is it not? you can say whatever you want. The Internet is like pure freedom of speech at its best.

    The question is, who is to say it is not the truth?

    Anyhow, I do wish you and Jim the best and hope that in fact those Axons do start making connections in the coming months and that he does in fact pick up more function.

    If in fact he does regain some function, I really think it would be worthwhile to document it in Medical journals (instead of just the Internet) so that it is more believable. That is something that really could help us all in the future rather than Internet dreaming of the possibilty of us regaining function because some anonomous person said that they could "move their legs and feet again" after undergoing an Operation.

    Curtis

  10. #120
    Senior Member Steve's Avatar
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    you are right, Curtis

    I just read your post. I agree with you, Curtis.
    I don t understand why we don t see it in Medical journal or on tv. That would be a great medical news, no?
    Let us wait and we'll see


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