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Thread: Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

  1. #501
    I am confused as to why a condom catheter all the time,I wear one at night only for safety reasons and cath 5 times a day.There are meds out there to stop him leaking and you could do the catheterizations and he may not have to wear the condom catheter all the time or has he had an operation on his bladder?.If he is wearing the external catheter and not cathing at least 4 times a day chances are his bladder will never fully empty and it is essential he empties at least 4 times a day.
    He will be heavily colonised all the time and there is not much you can do about that and thats were microcyn comes in,I nearly lost my life becuase of constant UTI'S and it saved my life.You will get the hang of it and once you get into a routine your husband will feel a lot better becuase heavy colonzation is nearly as bad as a full infection as it causes pain and spasams or at least it did in my case.........

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by alex120 View Post
    I have been flushing my husband's bladder with the Microcyn for the past two days. No improvement yet. I used 50ccs of Microcyn for each irrigation, one in the morning and one at night, leaving it in for 3 minutes.

    Yesterday evening I was re-reading the whole thread again and I think I know what I am missing.

    My husband wears a condom catheter 24/7. We never cath intermittently. Most of the time he has always some urine sitting at the tip of his penis, since it just doesn't drain down perfectly, especially when lying in bed at night. We have tried repositioning the catheter and leg bag/night bag, but most of the time there is always a little urine left up top.

    So, just spraying the meatus and surrounding area and then inserting the catheter and doing the flush, is probably not enough. I think that in his case I need to flush the whole urethra first.

    I am new at this and have only done these 4 catherizations in my whole life. I was instructed by my husband's nurses, since they cannot do it (they don't have doctor's orders).

    My question is, if I am going to flush the urethra first, can I use the lubricating jelly for easier insert, or would that interfere with the Microcyn? I am hesitant to insert the catheter without any lub. Also, how long would you leave the Microcyn in the urethra?

    Any input on how to best use the Microcyn in our case is much appreciated.

    Thanks.
    Hi Alex,

    I'm kinda confused. I've been following your, GJ's and others posts and I think we all may be a bit confused. So let me ask you a few questions but first some remarks.

    It appears as though your husband has been on antibiotics for at least 4 days... so far. Perhaps longer. By now the antibiotics should have your husband's urine crystal clear (as in normal urine) with a normal urine odor. Or at least well on the way. If not then he's probably on the wrong antibiotic and needs to have it changed. Talk to your urologist about changing it or better yet.... change it and then have another C&S (Culture and Sensitivity) test done. Then we can work with the Vetericyn.

    1- How many condom catheters do you use each day?

    2- How many times each day are you going to be catheterizing your husband?

    3- Are you catheterizing through the condom catheter or removing it first, tossing it away and then catheterizing?

    It can get expensive if you do it the correct way. You should catheterize your husband a minimum of 4 times and preferably 6 times each day so that there's no residual urine left in his bladder to serve as a breeding pool for bacteria. And you don't want more than 450ccs of urine in your husband's bladder at any time because that can cause high pressure and possible reflux into the kidneys.

    Over time bladders change so you may need to be changing the way in which you manage your husband's voiding procedure. Residual urine and bladder pressure need to be monitored and kept within the guidelines.

    I think I should stop here and wait for your answers and comments before I go any further. Then we can talk about using the Vetericyn. Hopefully this post has helped GJ and others as we try to figure this out for you and your hubby.

    Bob.
    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragersilver View Post
    I am confused as to why a condom catheter all the time,I wear one at night only for safety reasons and cath 5 times a day.There are meds out there to stop him leaking and you could do the catheterizations and he may not have to wear the condom catheter all the time or has he had an operation on his bladder?.If he is wearing the external catheter and not cathing at least 4 times a day chances are his bladder will never fully empty and it is essential he empties at least 4 times a day.
    He will be heavily colonised all the time and there is not much you can do about that and thats were microcyn comes in,I nearly lost my life becuase of constant UTI'S and it saved my life.You will get the hang of it and once you get into a routine your husband will feel a lot better becuase heavy colonzation is nearly as bad as a full infection as it causes pain and spasams or at least it did in my case.........
    Hi Ragersilver,

    You got me by 12 minutes but I think our posts compliment each other.

    Have a good day,

    Bob.
    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

  4. #504

    Suprapubic Catheter

    Thanks Bob although please keep an eye on this post as you have more experience than all of us.
    I really think a Suprapubic catheter would be a far better way for you to manage your husbands urine routine unless there is some reason he hasen't done this?
    It would be way easier for you also and you can still inject Microcyn through it as well,the other suggestions about reflux back into the kidneys is also an valid as this can lead to kidney failure so I hope Im not out of line but I think he needs a full assesment on managing his bladder.........................

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Donno View Post
    Another thought, I have Microcyn hydrogel for wounds, and you could use that as a lube when inserting the catheter.
    I get the spray bottles of vetricyn from amazon, before I cath (I intermittent cath 5-6 times a day) I spray my hands, tip of my schmekel, lube up the catheter and spray it as well. Haven't had a UTI since I started doing this.

  6. #506
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    Ragersilver,

    I need to explain. My husband had an accident about 3 years ago - long bone fractures (his legs), which caused him to have fat embolism syndrome, which in turn led to brain injury. Frank has limited movement from the neck down; full from the neck up. He can wiggle his toes, move his legs and arms a little bit (not much). Frank has full sensation throughout. He has a lot of spasticity in his arms and legs. He is totally dependend on care. He is doing relatively well cognitivelly - he knows who he is, he knows his suroundings, his long-term memory is ok. His short term memory is not so good.

    So, back to the bladder issues. Frank knows when he has to void; however, by the time he realizes it, it is already too late - same with BMs (we keep Depends on him). His output is pretty good, but there could be some retention. They did a bladder scan a while back, which came back ok. He has never had an operation on his bladder.

    Bob,

    Frank has been off his last round of Macrobid 4 days ago. At first the urine became crystal clear, stayed like that for a few days, and then became somewhat cloudy again. They took a sample of his urine 2 days before he was done with the Macrobid and found a moderate bacteria count - still E.-Coli. At this time I was reading this thread about Microcyn. Since I am not a fan of antibiotics (although they have their place), and most of you had great success with the M, I thought I'd give it a try.

    It seems to be working since I improved my method. Tonight I rinsed the urethra with the M again, before doing the flush. His urine was clear all day (not crystal). I again used 50ccs; kept it in for 3 minutes.

    1. We usually use one condom catheter a day (unless it comes off sooner).
    2. I started the Microcyn flushes 2 days ago (today is the third day), doing one in the morning and one in the evening. Tomorrow, depending on how the urine looks, I'd like to do just one M flush.
    3. Each time I flush, I remove the condom catheter, I wash him, then prep him and with a sterile straight catheter I perform the flush. After the flush I put a new condom catheter back on (Frank's insurance has been pretty good regarding supplies).

    I think that maybe it would be good to have them do another bladder scan.

    Thanks again for all of your input.

    alex
    Last edited by alex120; 10-17-2010 at 11:43 PM.

  7. #507
    I must appluad you for doing such a great job for frank and he is a lucky man,I really think a full urodynamic study is the way to go and this should be done on a regular basis anyway.The pressure in his bladder could be doing long term damage to his kidneys.On the other hand he could be fine although I very much doubt he is emptying properly,A Suprapubic catheter would save you all that work you have to do with the condom caths as he has to use a bag anyway,the proceedure is reversable if you are not happy with it.You can simply change his bag once a day and the catheter has to be changed about once every 3 months I think,and as I said you can still inject the Microcyn once a day.I had really bad spasams when I had bad colinizations and since using microcyn they have got much better and I hope this may be the case with Frank as well.Also I forgot to add the problem with wearing condom catheters 24/7 is he will eventully have skin problems on his penis,I hope all this has been helpfull and good luck to you and Frank...........John

  8. #508
    Senior Member WPDaggy's Avatar
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    Hi Alex,

    I agree with Rager, a super pube is the way to go. For years I went the reflex voiding route, never seeming to have any problems, however, I wasn't having any urodynamics testing. When I went in for a scan they found one of my kidneys had atrophied. The doctor couldn't say for certain if it was from high pressure due to reflex voiding, but that's what he suspects.

    Anyway, I now have a super pubic and my urine is always clear. I drink tons of water and have no issues with pressure, or accidents, or discomfort when my bladder gets full, all of which I had when wearing the condom. I instill Vetericyn for 10 to 15 minutes every other day just to keep my bladder from becoming colonized.

    This would make Frank's life better, I think, and it would certainly lighten your load.

    Good luck, and God bless!

    Wayne
    2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
    Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

  9. #509
    Hello, i have reading for hours about Microcyn, vetericyn. I have had UTI's since the beginning of my injury 6 years ago. Have never had to go to the hospital, but have taken multiple prescriptions of Cipro and am now on a daily maintenance program of Macrobid.
    My last colonized count was 100,000, e-coli.
    We have been using Vetericyn on our horses for quite a while and i was ecstatic to read there may be another way to live with this neurogenic bladder (and cathing) and not take antibiotics. My husband brought in the Vetericyn yesterday (i only have the gel at this point) but i did put it on my catheter and on my gloves and put a glob down there.
    I am going to order the liquid Vetericyn today, i need to find the sterile syringes, and i am going to give this a try. Just curious, do you feel Macrobid, (one daily) is hard on my body as was described earlier about antibiotics. That was quite the eye opener!!
    i am taking a lot of D-mannose right now along with the macrobid.
    From all i read, the easiest way to get the 10 ml or whichever i decide to use, is to pour the Vetericyn into the syringe and squirt it into the bladder? Then cath and get it out?
    Do i do this as a maintenance, twice a week, or only when the infection starts? My urologist is strictly a scientific guy, if it isn't in his medical books, he is not the least interested. I will be on my own on this, but am optimistic, anything to get off these daily antibiotics that i know will eventually stop working.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    About 2-3 times a week, after draining 20cc (left in the bladder for 5 minutes) of Vetericyn VF (VVF) that I use nightly (prophylactic treatment), I experience, what I will call, an autonomic sensation of coldness across my shoulders, down my arms and into my hands. It is pretty uncomfortable (I don't tolerate cold very well), 4-5 on a scale of 10. It lasts half and hour up to an hour and a half.

    The urine is mostly clear if I use the 20cc of VVF every night. If I skip a night or dilute the 20cc of VVF with sterile water, the urine becomes dull toward cloudy in appearance the next day.

    Any similar experiences or thoughts?

    GJ
    I think you aren't quite killing all of the bacteria in your bladder with the one dose. All seems well at first, until they've had a chance to multiply again.

    I've developed a technique to address this - I instill with 30 cc wait a couple of hours (I've gone up to 4-6 hours - but I have never had AD or bowel issues) and go about my day trying to move around as much as possible, drain, then instill another 30 cc to kill anything that might be lingering. Drain a couple of hours later. This method hasn't failed me yet.

    I need to do this about once a week - usually saturday when nothing's going on. Then I may do a maintenance flush on Wed. if I need it. The longer I use V, it seems the less I need that mid-week flush.

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