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Thread: Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

  1. #11
    Leila and Jenjen,

    Let me put my critic hat on and ask the questions that some doctors may ask. • What is the long term safety of this treatment?
    • Why does it kill bacteria and does it kill all types of bacteria?
    • What if there are stones in the bladder?
    • What are the safe and effective doses?
    • Is it enough to do this once a day or once a week, etc.
    • Can this be used for children.
    • Is intravesicular distillation necessary?
    •* Does it really kill the bacteria (cultures would be needed to determine this).

    Wise.

  2. #12
    I am so grateful that I stumbled upon this thread this morning. Thank you, thank you. Like most people who have a neurogenic bladder, I constantly get infections (2-3/month). The twist for me has been since getting the mitrofanoff - in which a piece of my intestine was used to augment my bladder - my bladder produces mucous (the intestine does not forget it's original function). Very little mucous is produced when I have no infection, but there's lots when I have an infection. The mucous reacts with the chemicals/nutrients or what-have-you in the urine and forms into stones. I go once a year to have the stones removed the usual way (scope, zap, remove), but last month there were so many stones (over a hundred) my urologist had to open up my bladder through my abdomen to get them all out. The procedure went ok, but the recovery sucks and I hate the risks associated with surgery.

    My bladder infections are typically colonized with few side effects so treating them with antibiotics seems unnecessary (and creates resistance) - except for the stone formation. I'm trying find the balance between treating infection to reduce the stones and leaving the colonies so I don't become resistant.

    If vetericyn/microcyn works, it could mean the end of my bladder stone problem.

  3. #13
    All good questions Wise. I'm a lay person and a lazy thinker, so I don't have all those answers. Someone should go find out.

    What I do know is that this product has been proven safe and effective on living tissue. It's used on humans in other countries to treat some horrific wounds. Here in the US, I have friends who now use it regularly in their horse and dog breeding businesses. These are multi-million dollar operations that find the product invaluable and use it with their vets' blessings. They keep good records and can show cause and effect.

    Personally I know that in my first 3 years of SCI I had 10 hospitalizations for sepsis due to UTIs, In 4 of those hospitalizations, I was not expected to live. I was counseled to prepare myself for end of life as we couldn't find a way to keep me healthy and each infection was making me weaker and weaker and more resistant to ABX. My hearing's been destroyed by IV Gent. My arms are scarred by PICCs.

    Since I started using the Vetericyn 2 years ago, the only times I've developed infections is when I've let myself run out of the product. As soon as I show signs of infection, I increase my usage and the SX go away. Anecdotal at best. I make room for the possibility that this is co-incidence or a placebo effect of some sort.

    All I do know is that not only am I still alive ( and none of my medical team would have bet on that a couple of years ago). Not only am I alive, but living infection-free for an extended period has allowed me to develop a vitality again that allows me to work, work-out and participate in marathons. I directly attribute all of this to a healthy bladder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Leila and Jenjen,

    Let me put my critic hat on and ask the questions that some doctors may ask. • What is the long term safety of this treatment?
    • Why does it kill bacteria and does it kill all types of bacteria?
    • What if there are stones in the bladder?
    • What are the safe and effective doses?
    • Is it enough to do this once a day or once a week, etc.
    • Can this be used for children.
    • Is intravesicular distillation necessary?
    •* Does it really kill the bacteria (cultures would be needed to determine this).

    Wise.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Leila's Avatar
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    I have contacted Oculus, and they are consulting their medical director. They are talking about doing an "in-sevice" interview with you, Dr. Young. Only that will truly answer your questions. They will let me know today or tomorrow what steps to take.

    Jen Jen--your story is so dramatic and compelling. No need to be apologetic about your lack of technical knowledge. Your experience speaks for itself. Please don't "damn with faint praise." Placebo? I think not. Placebos are the stuff of imagination and would only be effective against imaginary microbes. Yours were real, and they were killing you. You found the right way. Glad you're still with us.

    Leila

  5. #15
    Senior Member Leila's Avatar
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    I should also say that Oculus can only answer your general questions, Dr. Young. Answers specific to the rinsing technique we are using to prevent UTI's can only be had from those who are doing the technique. So, to answer your question, "Is is enough to do this once a day or once a week?"--we would have to say that it should probably be done prior to each catheterization. That's the safest way. Microbes can be introduced each time the catheter is inserted, no matter how careful you are. My husband, John, attached a six inch length of catheter to a 10 cc syringe. He draws up about 5 cc of Microcyn and irrigates the length of the penile urethra (not penetrating the external sphicter). He then waits 30 seconds (the kill time for Microcyn) and catheterizes as usual. His urethra is always clean as a whistle. Really clean. Thus no infections.

    You have to realize that Microcyn is used in the deepest most terrible wounds and always promotes healing. It in no way traumatizes the tissue. That's why it's safe to use in the urethra.

    Anyway, I'll let the experts speak with you about the rest of it.

    More later.

    Leila

  6. #16
    Dr. Young, the Vetericyn website provides answers to how it kills bacteria/viruses/fungi and which bacteria are affected by it. The list is very impressive and includes MRSA, pseudomonas, VRE, various forms of staph, proteus, and klebsiella.

    I really appreciate you starting this thread, Leila/Susanne, and thank you, Jen, for sharing your successful kitchen science once again.

    I do frequent battle with a strain of pseudomonas that's resistant to all oral antibiotics. You can bet that I will try 10 minute instillations of Vetericyn (the amount of time needed to totally inhibit the growth of pseudomonas, per the Vetericyn site) to treat any future infections before consenting to IV/IM antibiotics. It will be easy enough to perform a C&S before and after the use of Vetericyn determine if it really does eradicate certain strains of bacteria, and I'll report my experience here.

    ETA: With as many discussions as there are here about MRSA, it's too bad this product isn't mentioned more often as something worth trying.
    It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.

    ~Julius Caesar


  7. #17
    IF you're going to instill it in your bladder, I STRONGLY encourage you start with less time and work up if it doesn't work. I have found that my bowels quit working properly very quickly. Probiotics may counter that. At this point, when I do a bladder installation, I use 10cc for about 5 minutes. I only do it twice a day when I'm fighting an infection.

    I hope it works for you. My results are dramatically quick.



    Quote Originally Posted by thehipcrip View Post
    Dr. Young, the Vetericyn website provides answers to how it kills bacteria/viruses/fungi and which bacteria are affected by it. The list is very impressive and includes MRSA, pseudomonas, VRE, various forms of staph, proteus, and klebsiella.

    I really appreciate you starting this thread, Leila/Susanne, and thank you, Jen, for sharing your successful kitchen science once again.

    I do frequent battle with a strain of pseudomonas that's resistant to all oral antibiotics. You can bet that I will try 10 minute instillations of Vetericyn (the amount of time needed to totally inhibit the growth of pseudomonas, per the Vetericyn site) to treat any future infections before consenting to IV/IM antibiotics. It will be easy enough to perform a C&S before and after the use of Vetericyn determine if it really does eradicate certain strains of bacteria, and I'll report my experience here.

    ETA: With as many discussions as there are here about MRSA, it's too bad this product isn't mentioned more often as something worth trying.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Leila's Avatar
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    Thank you HipCrip. But I would like to repeat that it is not necessary to use Veteracyn. We are not animals. Microcyn OTC is available directly from the Oculus website and also from Metromedicalonline website, which gives free shipping if you purchase at least $50 worth. Go for the 8.5 ounce (250 ml) bottles. They are $28 each. No prescription required unless you want to buy the big bottles.

    Dr. Young, I have the cell phone number for Dr. BonGiovanni, the medical liaison for Oculus Innovative Sciences. However, I am not allowed to post Dr. BonGiovanni's number on any public forum. Do you have an email I can send it to? They want to answer your questions fully, in the way only a doctor can do.

    Leila

  9. #19
    Leila, if you click on Dr. Young's name (next to his avatar), you'll see an option to send him a private message.
    It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.

    ~Julius Caesar


  10. #20
    Senior Member Leila's Avatar
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    Thank you HipCrip. Will do.

    Take Care,

    Leila

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