Thread: Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

  1. #1131
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac85 View Post
    I'm a bit confused by the time line? When did you instill Vetericyn? When your mother transferred you into bed, did you lie down immediately? And that is when the AD started? But before you instilled Vetericyn?

    My caregiver flushed my catheter y-day because it wasnt flushed in 4 days and and he pulled out a lot of sediment and blood cloths then he instilled the v/f saline mix and 5 mins later disconnected syringe and connected to leg bag. That was my first AD in the morning. The tube was draining.
    Once I got out of bed in my chair everything was fine.
    Then when my mom put me to bed and layed me flat like she always does i got another AD, we didnt instill anything.

    I slept with my head elevated so I didnt have ad
    Today my caregiver flushed w/ v/vf and same thing AD, until i got in my chair
    Everytime I flush my cath with saline i try to pull back on the plunger to see if i can pull out the same amout i instilled. Sometimes i cant pull anything out so we have to mess with the cath - pushing it in/out until we can pull the saline out w/ the syringe.


    When are you due for a catheter change?
    Changed on the 1st of the month.

    When you are tilted up in bed, does the urine drain? It sounds like it must, if the AD goes away, if the AD is being caused by a full bladder. When you are up in the chair, is the urine draining normally?
    yes it drains good when up in bed and chair

    Is there any other reason, aside from your bladder, that you would be having AD upon lying down, i.e., bowel cramps, hemorrhoids, pressure sores, back pain, bone fractures?
    No, sores, back pain bowel issues, just bladder

    Do you have "rescue" medications on hand to immediately treat episodes of AD? These medications include Nitroglycerine Paste and Nifedipine (Procardia) that can rapidly lower blood pressure. I've attached (see below) a PDF that you may want to read and review about AD.
    Nitroglycerine Paste but it doesn't really help w/ AD
    Thanks for everything GJ
    "Mac 85," I think you need to go back to square one. Stop all Vetericyn instillation and see how the autonomia plays out. Then review the techniques of instillation that I have described and start anew with that protocol in mind. I'm in your camp, I have a suprapubic and I haven't had the various issues that you have had. Wish I could send my NL to you to establish the same routines she has established for me ...but nice guy that you are...I'm not sharing her.

    Stay in touch,
    All the best,
    GJ

  2. #1132
    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    "Mac 85," I think you need to go back to square one. Stop all Vetericyn instillation and see how the autonomia plays out. Then review the techniques of instillation that I have described and start anew with that protocol in mind. I'm in your camp, I have a suprapubic and I haven't had the various issues that you have had. Wish I could send my NL to you to establish the same routines she has established for me ...but nice guy that you are...I'm not sharing her.

    Stay in touch,
    All the best,
    GJ
    C'mon just 4 one daaay
    Hopefully if I read this forum long enough I'll get some knowledge. Remember when my family doc prescribed me leavoflaxin for 14 days I called my uro and he only told me to take it for 7 days. I kept the remaining pills and took them last night, my urine came back from cloudy and nasty smelling to clear and almost odor free. I'll see if I get some AD tonight, hopefully not. I still have about 5 left, gotta call doc for a refill. Much <3 GJNL and thank you.
    C5/C6 Complete since 08/22/09

  3. #1133
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac85 View Post
    C'mon just 4 one daaay
    Hopefully if I read this forum long enough I'll get some knowledge. Remember when my family doc prescribed me leavoflaxin for 14 days I called my uro and he only told me to take it for 7 days. I kept the remaining pills and took them last night, my urine came back from cloudy and nasty smelling to clear and almost odor free. I'll see if I get some AD tonight, hopefully not. I still have about 5 left, gotta call doc for a refill. Much <3 GJNL and thank you.
    What I'm saying is that sometimes, especially when a new problem presents itself, you need to take a look at what has changed, take a few steps back, reassess and start fresh. I was just suggesting a break from your attempts to use Vetericyn until you resolved the autonomic symptoms you experienced.

    One thing that has been discussed extensively on Care Cure threads about urinary tract infections is that when doctors prescribe an antibiotic, the course (number of days to take the medication) should be longer than might normally be prescribed for someone without a spinal cord injury. So, in the case of your primary care physician prescribing Levaquin (levofloxacin) for 14 days, he was correct in prescribing that course and your urologist's suggestion to only take it for 7 days was off target. The fact is, you may have been better off in the long run to take the full 14 day course.

    One other point, it isn't good practice to take any left over antibiotics just because you have cloudy urine. Most any antibiotic will clear up cloudy urine after an initial dose, but if you haven't had a urinalysis (UA) culture and sensitivity (C&S), you don't know if the leftover antibiotic is the right one to take for the bacteria that may be causing the problem. Were you experiencing any other symptoms of urinary tract infection besides cloudy urine. Remember, cloudy urine is not the only symptom of infection, other symptoms odor, blood, fever, generally feeling tired and run down, sometimes back pain (that of course in your case may present as autonomia).

    Cloudy urine may suggest that your bladder is colonized with bacteria. Colonization is defined as the presence of micro-organisms the bladder, without an inflammatory response of the bladder. If your bladder is colonized with bacteria, but there is no infection, you may need to increase the amount of Vetericyn you use until signs of colonization are gone. I remember reading about one of our members who used 60cc Vetericyn two times a day to clear up colonization and then returned to a maintenance level that he found effective. We all have different responses to Vetericyn and need to find our own level of effectiveness.

    Hope the AD is gone and things go more smoothly for you from here on.

    All the best,
    GJ

  4. #1134
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    What kind of "bowel issues?" Usually drinking fluids doesn't cause big bowel issues. But, what is going on with that?

    All the best,
    GJ
    Seems like if I drink to much fluid, my system doesn't absorb it, and I end up with the (can't any more) runs / blowouts / diarrhoea...

    It has been a serious issue the past several months - I seemed to have a bout of what may have been norovirus, several months back where I was blowing out every few hours for a couple of days. Since then I had been having a problem every week or so. Only good thing has been that it usually happens fairly late, so I'm home when it does, makes cleanup easier...

    I have quit all the laxative items that I was put on in rehab, and started doing some extra fiber in the morning (CVS Benefiber clone) and that seems to have helped, at least it's been a couple of weeks since the last explosion...

    But I still get paranoid every time I hear gurgling from the midriff area... Worst thing about still having feeling is getting the "urge" with about 30 seconds warning, and not being able to do a damned thing to stop it!

    ex-Gooserider
    T-5 ASIA-B para, currently working on building own power chair, as being in a manual is an EXTRA handicap.

  5. #1135
    Quote Originally Posted by ex-Gooserider View Post
    Seems like if I drink to much fluid, my system doesn't absorb it, and I end up with the (can't any more) runs / blowouts / diarrhoea...

    It has been a serious issue the past several months - I seemed to have a bout of what may have been norovirus, several months back where I was blowing out every few hours for a couple of days. Since then I had been having a problem every week or so. Only good thing has been that it usually happens fairly late, so I'm home when it does, makes cleanup easier...

    I have quit all the laxative items that I was put on in rehab, and started doing some extra fiber in the morning (CVS Benefiber clone) and that seems to have helped, at least it's been a couple of weeks since the last explosion...

    But I still get paranoid every time I hear gurgling from the midriff area... Worst thing about still having feeling is getting the "urge" with about 30 seconds warning, and not being able to do a damned thing to stop it!

    ex-Gooserider
    As I was reading your post, I was thinking fiber supplement. Good that you have started that. Also try adding a probiotic supplement and some yogurt.

    All the best,
    GJ

  6. #1136
    Senior Member
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    Nov 2011
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    North Billerica, MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    As I was reading your post, I was thinking fiber supplement. Good that you have started that. Also try adding a probiotic supplement and some yogurt.

    All the best,
    GJ
    I don't do yogurt much as I don't care for plain, and the flavoured stuff has to much sweetener for my taste (I try to do a low carb diet as much as I can).

    However I do a "Super Greens" supplement from "Vibrant Health" that has a bunch of green vegetable stuff in it, and 12 different strains of probiotics...

    I also do a bunch of other supplements as well, mostly stuff I started long before I got hurt (and which mostly kept me out of the clutches of the medical profession up to that point)

    ex-Gooserider
    T-5 ASIA-B para, currently working on building own power chair, as being in a manual is an EXTRA handicap.

  7. #1137
    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    What I'm saying is that sometimes, especially when a new problem presents itself, you need to take a look at what has changed, take a few steps back, reassess and start fresh. I was just suggesting a break from your attempts to use Vetericyn until you resolved the autonomic symptoms you experienced.

    One thing that has been discussed extensively on Care Cure threads about urinary tract infections is that when doctors prescribe an antibiotic, the course (number of days to take the medication) should be longer than might normally be prescribed for someone without a spinal cord injury. So, in the case of your primary care physician prescribing Levaquin (levofloxacin) for 14 days, he was correct in prescribing that course and your urologist's suggestion to only take it for 7 days was off target. The fact is, you may have been better off in the long run to take the full 14 day course.

    One other point, it isn't good practice to take any left over antibiotics just because you have cloudy urine. Most any antibiotic will clear up cloudy urine after an initial dose, but if you haven't had a urinalysis (UA) culture and sensitivity (C&S), you don't know if the leftover antibiotic is the right one to take for the bacteria that may be causing the problem. Were you experiencing any other symptoms of urinary tract infection besides cloudy urine. Remember, cloudy urine is not the only symptom of infection, other symptoms odor, blood, fever, generally feeling tired and run down, sometimes back pain (that of course in your case may present as autonomia).

    Cloudy urine may suggest that your bladder is colonized with bacteria. Colonization is defined as the presence of micro-organisms the bladder, without an inflammatory response of the bladder. If your bladder is colonized with bacteria, but there is no infection, you may need to increase the amount of Vetericyn you use until signs of colonization are gone. I remember reading about one of our members who used 60cc Vetericyn two times a day to clear up colonization and then returned to a maintenance level that he found effective. We all have different responses to Vetericyn and need to find our own level of effectiveness.

    Hope the AD is gone and things go more smoothly for you from here on.

    All the best,
    GJ
    So I took the leftover antbiotics and the AD is gone finally.
    I bought a bottle of regular vetericyn http://www.ebay.com/itm/290490838571...84.m1439.l2649
    Maybe the vf was a bit too strong on my bladder. Once it arrives I'll try mixing 20cc w/ 10cc saline to see if I can hold it in
    C5/C6 Complete since 08/22/09

  8. #1138
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
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    14
    I felt bladder pain (irritation) as the Vetericyn VF solution (half saline) is pumped into my bladder thru my Foley cath. Has anyone experienced this? I thought this product doesn't irritate tissue ...

  9. #1139
    Quote Originally Posted by C5Ski09 View Post
    I felt bladder pain (irritation) as the Vetericyn VF solution (half saline) is pumped into my bladder thru my Foley cath. Has anyone experienced this? I thought this product doesn't irritate tissue ...
    You were probably feeling cold Vetericyn going into a warm bladder. That's the sensation I get when I inject it.

    I hope this helps.
    Millard
    ''Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid!'' -- John Wayne


  10. #1140
    Quote Originally Posted by C5Ski09 View Post
    I felt bladder pain (irritation) as the Vetericyn VF solution (half saline) is pumped into my bladder thru my Foley cath. Has anyone experienced this? I thought this product doesn't irritate tissue ...
    Does the pain subside after a minute or two? Do you have any autonomic symptoms? Vetericyn VF (VVF) can be too strong for some individuals (VVF is roughly twice the strength of original Vetericyn). If the feeling of "irritation" continues throughout the time you retain VVF, you might try diluting it with saline. I use 20cc of VVF and 10cc of saline solution. Next time you order a Vetericyn product, you might consider ordering the regular strength Vetericyn.

    All the best,
    GJ

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