Thread: Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

  1. #1051

    Vetericyn and intermitent cath

    Hi all,
    I have been having recurring UTI's and after reading things on this forum and particular advice from some members I am going to start trying Vetericyn.
    I have been searching among the different threads but I am not sure how you use it when doing intermitent catheterization. Do you spray the cathether with it and then insert it? In the label says external use only so I wanted to check first.
    Thank you very much for your help.

  2. #1052
    Hi "maf,"
    I use a supra pubic catheter, but I remember reading threads that discuss the method for using Vetericyn when you manage your bladder with intermittent catheterization.

    To administer, you pour some of the solution into a cup (I use a urine specimen cup that is already marked with cc measurements - you can reuse the cup) and draw up the the amount you have decided to use into a syringe (usually a slip-tip type syringe that you use to fill a balloon in a foley catheter - you can reuse the syringe). Do your regular catheterization, and when you are done, leave in the catheter; insert the syringe into the catheter and inject the solution into your bladder. Some people pull the catheter out and leave the solution in the bladder until the next cath. Others can't tolerate Vetericyn in the bladder that long (the issues that determine your tolerance are spasms and possible impact on the intestinal tract) and leave the catheter in, clamped off for 20-40 minutes is usually long enough, then drain the bladder through the catheter and remove the catheter. Obviously, this is probably best done at night when you cath at bedtime. This is a daily procedure.

    Yes, the bottle does say for external use only, but as you have read, many of us have been using this technique for quite a while with great success and no ill effects, with the exception of variations in tolerance (as noted above) between individuals. I am pretty sensitive to Vetericyn and use 20cc of Veteicyn VF and 10cc of sterile saline to instill in my bladder for 25-30 minutes. If I am using Vetericyn (not VF) I can tolerate 30cc straight without dilution.

    All the best,
    GJ

  3. #1053
    It's instilled into the bladder with your catheter after emptying your bladder. Instilled with a syringe, 60 cc is the usual amount left in for varying time, some 20 minutes, others an hour or longer. I'm sure you'll hear soon from other posters with more detail. Vetericyn hasn't been approved for bladder installations, but the thought is it's gentle enough for pink eye so it shouldn't damage the bladder.

  4. #1054
    Quote Originally Posted by maf View Post
    Hi all,
    I have been having recurring UTI's and after reading things on this forum and particular advice from some members I am going to start trying Vetericyn.
    I have been searching among the different threads but I am not sure how you use it when doing intermitent catheterization. Do you spray the cathether with it and then insert it? In the label says external use only so I wanted to check first.
    Thank you very much for your help.
    Hi maf,

    Go back a page or two and read my step by step procedure for IC with V VF.
    Tex
    C4,5,6 incomplete with 100% full feeling

  5. #1055
    Hi Tex,
    Re post 1031 on page 104 this thread. Do you reuse catheters or use new ones for this method? If you use new ones, I would just point out that is two extra catheters a day (could get expensive if you use more catheters a month than insurance and/or medicare will provide) and additional trauma to the urethra that could result in irritation and false passages. I only bring this up so that others will consider these points when deciding upon a technique to instill Vetericyn into the bladder. But, I am glad you have found a method that works for you and that you are having good luck with Vetericyn.

    All the best,
    GJ
    Last edited by gjnl; 01-14-2012 at 03:39 PM.

  6. #1056
    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    Hi Tex,
    Re post 1031 on page 104 this thread. Do you reuse catheters or use new ones for this method? If you use new ones, I would just point out that is two extra catheters a day (could get expensive if you use more catheters a month than insurance and/or medicare will provide) and additional trauma to the urethra that could result in irritation and false passages. I only bring this up so that others will consider these points when deciding upon a technique to instill Vetericyn into the bladder. But, I am glad you have found a method that works for you and that you are having good luck with Vetericyn.

    All the best,
    GJ
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough on my post #1031.
    You are incorrect on several of your assumptions.
    I only use new caths.
    I cath about 4 times throughout a day. (3 regular + 1 flush).
    I only do the instillation/flush on one of those times; using 3 new catheters. (So a total of 6 catheters a day).
    I always use the Vetericyn Gel to lube the cath and clean my urethra even when I’m not doing the flush. This is far better, easier and safer than trying to flush your urethra with a shortened cath.
    Tex
    C4,5,6 incomplete with 100% full feeling

  7. #1057
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannosaurus Tex View Post
    Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough on my post #1031.
    You are incorrect on several of your assumptions.
    I only use new caths.
    I cath about 4 times throughout a day. (3 regular + 1 flush).
    I only do the instillation/flush on one of those times; using 3 new catheters. (So a total of 6 catheters a day).
    I always use the Vetericyn Gel to lube the cath and clean my urethra even when I’m not doing the flush. This is far better, easier and safer than trying to flush your urethra with a shortened cath.
    Hi Tex,
    When I was managing my bladder with intermittent catheterization, it was not uncommon for me to have to cath 6 times a day (and before I decided to go with a supra pubic catheter - maybe 7 or 8). Medicare and/or most private insurance pays for up to 200 catheters a month (roughly 6.6 catheters a day). At that rate, I would have had to purchase more catheters on my own to use instillation technique you use. I was merely pointing this out, since purchasing extra catheters may be an added burden on top of the expense of the Vetericyn liquid and gel.

    For some people, who are prone to urethral irritation or false passages additional catheterizations may be detrimental.

    But, for those who can manage to instill Vetericyn following your method, I think it would work quite well as it does for you.

    All the best,
    GJ

  8. #1058
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Billerica, MA
    Posts
    175

    Post

    A few points, as one that is currently doing the VVF & IC...

    1. The slip tip syringe may or may not work for you. I found that it did NOT fit the funnel tip on the end of most caths. If you want to inject into the funnel end, I've been told that "feeder tip" syringes will fit better. (haven't tried this yet)

    2. My current practice, using the slip-tips I have already bought, and which works fairly well with the closed system cath kits that I use:
    - Prefill the syringe
    - Using usual prep, empty bladder into collection bag, pushing catheter in as far as comfortable.
    - Pull collection bag away, sliding catheter funnel end up against stop in bag, and leaving catheter in place.
    - Working as quickly as possible, cut the catheter tube off just past where it comes out of the insertion tip. (you will start dripping a little urine at this point)
    - Cap the bag and put it aside for dumping later...
    - Insert the pre-filled syringe slip tip into the cut end of the cath., and inject.
    - If leaving VVF in bladder, remove cath from bladder, then take off syringe tip and discard (note, there will be a little liquid in the cath)
    - If planning to remove VVF, leave cath and syringe in place for desired wait time, and then remove w/ syringe (note, if doing anything that compresses bladder while waiting, you may start filling the syringe and pushing out the plunger - I just periodically push it back in to re-inject... ) and remove cath as above. Because the kidneys never stop, you will probably get 5-10ml more than you started with, allow for this when picking syringe.

    3. The amount can vary, I typically use about 30ml (in the AM while doing BP, before I've gotten dressed.

    4. It is also something that one seems to build up a tolerance to the process, best to start with a relatively small volume and build up

    5. If you currently have a UTI, it is best to treat it with ABX as you start the VVF. It appears that the VVF is better at preventing new infections than it is at knocking out existing ones...

    ex-Gooserider
    T-5 ASIA-B para, currently working on building own power chair, as being in a manual is an EXTRA handicap.

  9. #1059
    Quote Originally Posted by ex-Gooserider View Post
    A few points, as one that is currently doing the VVF & IC...

    1. The slip tip syringe may or may not work for you. I found that it did NOT fit the funnel tip on the end of most caths. If you want to inject into the funnel end, I've been told that "feeder tip" syringes will fit better. (haven't tried this yet)

    2. My current practice, using the slip-tips I have already bought, and which works fairly well with the closed system cath kits that I use:
    - Prefill the syringe
    - Using usual prep, empty bladder into collection bag, pushing catheter in as far as comfortable.
    - Pull collection bag away, sliding catheter funnel end up against stop in bag, and leaving catheter in place.
    - Working as quickly as possible, cut the catheter tube off just past where it comes out of the insertion tip. (you will start dripping a little urine at this point)
    - Cap the bag and put it aside for dumping later...
    - Insert the pre-filled syringe slip tip into the cut end of the cath., and inject.
    - If leaving VVF in bladder, remove cath from bladder, then take off syringe tip and discard (note, there will be a little liquid in the cath)
    - If planning to remove VVF, leave cath and syringe in place for desired wait time, and then remove w/ syringe (note, if doing anything that compresses bladder while waiting, you may start filling the syringe and pushing out the plunger - I just periodically push it back in to re-inject... ) and remove cath as above. Because the kidneys never stop, you will probably get 5-10ml more than you started with, allow for this when picking syringe.

    3. The amount can vary, I typically use about 30ml (in the AM while doing BP, before I've gotten dressed.

    4. It is also something that one seems to build up a tolerance to the process, best to start with a relatively small volume and build up

    5. If you currently have a UTI, it is best to treat it with ABX as you start the VVF. It appears that the VVF is better at preventing new infections than it is at knocking out existing ones...

    ex-Gooserider
    Another good post, thanks for the specific information.

    All the best,
    GJ

  10. #1060
    Hi everybody,
    I’ve read quite a few pages of this post in the beginning and the end of the thread, but I never really ran across anyone in my situation.

    I had a Mitrofanoff surgery August 2011 and was on Bactrim for the following month. Then starting in October I had a couple of infections. Then in November I started getting an infection (Enterococcus faecalis) that I can not seem to get rid of. I do not take a specimen in unless I am having full blown UTI symptoms like fever, AD, urgency, extra pain, extra spasticity, bladder spasms, and generally feeling ill. We do a C&S and the only antibiotic that will work is Ampicillin. I take the Ampicillin for a full 10-14 days and then a few days later I’m infected again. I am not currently using my Mitrofanoff as I am afraid that the natural flora from my appendix has something to do with the infections, but I am keeping it viable for late use.

    Before the surgery I was only having a few infections a year and I really want to get back to that at least. I would like to try using Microcyn at least for a few months to break my bladder out of this infection cycle and give it a chance to heal. I see varying amounts of Microcyn used as well as various amounts of time, so I am assuming I will have to experiment to see what will work best for me.

    My question is for any other girls using it, do you need to get actually some into the urethra to clean it out? I’m imaging using a syringe to inject it into a catheter while pulling it out of the urethra to spread it inside. (But I’m not sure if that is a good idea because some people had a problem leaving it in their bladder for too long. I don’t really think you could get it back out of the urethra as I’m imagining that it would soak into the tissue of the urethra.) I am also assuming it would be a good idea to clean on the skin outside the urethra with Microcyn before intermittent catheterization.

    Also, would it be a good (or bad) idea to flush the Mitrofanoff (basically my repurposed appendix) with the Microcyn? Has anyone had any experience trying to flush out a Mitrofanoff with it? I’m guessing I can at least clean the actually Mitrofanoff stoma in my belly button. I am tempted to basically just dump some in my belly button, but then again I’m uncertain if it would soak in and cause digestive issues.

    Sorry for the really long post, but I would really appreciate any ideas! Thanks, Melissa
    Life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •