Thread: Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

  1. #1031
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    learning how?

    Got my VF and syringe order yesterday, started experimenting this morning, with mixed results. Definitely need to work on technique as I made a fair bit of mess...

    I started with a hydrophilic catheter kit, with a detachable collection bag. Sitting in my chair I don't seem able to get close enough to the toilet to go directly into it...

    I emptied bladder and removed bag, then started to prep syringe - found I dribbled from catheter end while doing so... Lesson learned, prep syringe first...

    I then found that the tip on the syringe was much smaller than the funnel end on the cath, so I tried cutting it off, at which point the syringe fit into the end of the cath tube, but I couldn't reconnect the bag... More dribbles...

    I inserted about 30cc of VF, which felt weird because the VF was at room temperature, but didn' seem to cause any issues otherwise. I tried leaving the cath and syringe in place, and found that the bladder pressure gradually pushed the plunger on the syringe out and filled it - pumped it back in a few times, then tried pulling the cath out past the sphincter, but when I pushed the cath back in it didn't seem to want to flow... Eventually I gave up and left the VF where it was, until I cathed again a few hours later...

    I assume that the VF will get "used up" killing stuff after a bit, and it is obviously getting diluted by the incoming urine - is there any harm in leaving it in the bladder for extended periods as long as the quantity is small?

    Any suggestions on how to do the process, or other improvements in technique? Will be trying a different kit tomorrow, see if it works any better...

    ex-Gooserider
    T-5 ASIA-B para, currently working on building own power chair, as being in a manual is an EXTRA handicap.

  2. #1032
    Hello Ex-GR,

    Many times I inject the V-VF into my bladder and leave it overnight with only good results. I also use hydrophilic catheters. The first time I used V-VF I pretty well had a mess also but it will improve as you figure out how to inject it. It will get much easier.

    Good luck and I hope you have great results.

    Note: You can use V-VF anywhere you can use saline.

    Millard
    ''Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid!'' -- John Wayne


  3. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by ex-Gooserider View Post
    I started with a hydrophilic catheter kit, with a detachable collection bag. Sitting in my chair I don't seem able to get close enough to the toilet to go directly into it...


    I then found that the tip on the syringe was much smaller than the funnel end on the cath, so I tried cutting it off
    ex-Gooserider
    I’m more than very surprised that in every post I’ve read on this site concerning cathing, that everyone either does it in bed or into a urinal sitting in a chair. After wearing a condom cath/leg bag for 23 years I was told by my urologist in 1989 that I needed to start intermittent cathing. I thought, hell how am I going to do that, and especially how am I going to do it at my work office. I came up with a kit which I kept in a fanny pack and one key item was an extension tube to connect to the cath and reach the toilet. At first I made it from surgical tubing, but now you can buy better ones like the Coloplast 24” self-cath ext tube #475.

    The other obstacle was to get the office building to install their first wheelchair accessible bathroom stall. This was before the ADA days, and is another successful story if anyone is interested.

    Cal/Vet also sells Feeding Syringes that fit the tip of the cath.
    Tex
    C4,5,6 incomplete with 100% full feeling

  4. #1034
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    My usual technique is to use a "closed system" where the catheter and bag are all combined into one unit. I use the CURE medical brand, which IMHO is the best one of all that I've tried. The cath is contained in the bag, with an "insertion tip" that is supposed to get the prelubed cath path the nastiest part of the urethra. It is "no touch" all the way, and comes in a kit with drape, iodine swabs, BZK wipe and a set of LARGE gloves (many of the other kits have little gloves that don't fit my hands...) Very neat and simple - after use, there is a corner on the bag designed to tear off and allow easy dumping. No need to be near a toilet to use it. IMHO a far better approach than the separate cath and urinal method.

    Biggest challenge I've found when using random restrooms is finding someplace to put the opened kit as I use the different bits in it. Not a big deal though, and I've even dealt w/ "non-accessible" rooms by parking in the main area and then dumping it in a urinal. Or when visiting friends w/ non accessible baths, I can use the kit anywhere there is a bit of privacy, then get someone else to dump it for me...

    Getting back to the V-VF, I'm still working on technique but getting better... Now I'm using about 3-4cc in a small syringe w/a short length of cath tube to flush my urethra, and then using the big syringe to inject about 30cc after cutting the funnel end off the inserted cath. I'm leaving the V-VF in the bladder until the next time I cath, thanks to Millard's advice.

    ex-Gooserider
    T-5 ASIA-B para, currently working on building own power chair, as being in a manual is an EXTRA handicap.

  5. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by ex-Gooserider View Post
    I'm leaving the V-VF in the bladder until the next time I cath, thanks to Millard's advice.
    ex-Gooserider
    Glad you can do this. I can only retain Vetericyn or Vetericyn VF (diluted with saline) for about 20-30 minutes. Then I get spasms and autonomic symptoms. But, that amount of time works for me.

    All the best,
    GJ

  6. #1036
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    I switched to regular Vetericyn because my bladder was irritated by the VF. Now I can leave 30 ml in until next cath.
    Don - Grad Student Emeritus
    T3 ASIA A 26 years post injury

  7. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Donno View Post
    I switched to regular Vetericyn because my bladder was irritated by the VF. Now I can leave 30 ml in until next cath.
    Vetericyn (not VF) seems to be getting more difficult to find and I have found it is a few dollars more expensive (???). So I am using 2 parts Vetericyn VF to one part of Sterile Saline (you could probably use sterile water). Works great. I can retain it for 30 minutes, and no irritation.

    All the best,
    GJ

  8. #1038

    To one of the nurses

    I came across this site by accident but am thrilled at what I have read. I have Interstitial Cystitis. But in 06 caught a virus that shut all my abdominal organs down, I lost my large intestine leaving me with a ileostomy, gastroparesis, recurrent resistant UTi's and other major infections. I have had septic shock 3 times, coded twice, developed protein C&S deficiency and have had multiple blood clots everywhere. My bone marrow is not making blood and I have a multitude of other problems and the specialist don't know why and we are trying to get into John Hopkins. But the part I read about the microcyn leaves me wondering if it is at all possible for me to use it with the IC or would it cause a flare. If I could quit having so many infections I could start feeling better but I go from one infection to another and right now I have been running a fever for 4 weeks, low grade but enough to make me feel bad. I have a port and get IV's every week because of malabsorption and hypokalemia, hyponatremia and others. I am very anemic hgb 9 rbc 3 hct 27 but I got a procrit shot to try to help. I am becoming allergic to everything and it seems with each new infection I lose a drug from the arsenal. I just lost vancomycin, it put me into acute kidney failure. So if I could stop the infection from ever starting I would be so much better off. Any opinions out there??

  9. #1039
    Yikes Pollyetta. Are the UTIs coming from cathing?

  10. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Pollyetta View Post
    I came across this site by accident but am thrilled at what I have read. I have Interstitial Cystitis. But in 06 caught a virus that shut all my abdominal organs down, I lost my large intestine leaving me with a ileostomy, gastroparesis, recurrent resistant UTi's and other major infections. I have had septic shock 3 times, coded twice, developed protein C&S deficiency and have had multiple blood clots everywhere. My bone marrow is not making blood and I have a multitude of other problems and the specialist don't know why and we are trying to get into John Hopkins. But the part I read about the microcyn leaves me wondering if it is at all possible for me to use it with the IC or would it cause a flare. If I could quit having so many infections I could start feeling better but I go from one infection to another and right now I have been running a fever for 4 weeks, low grade but enough to make me feel bad. I have a port and get IV's every week because of malabsorption and hypokalemia, hyponatremia and others. I am very anemic hgb 9 rbc 3 hct 27 but I got a procrit shot to try to help. I am becoming allergic to everything and it seems with each new infection I lose a drug from the arsenal. I just lost vancomycin, it put me into acute kidney failure. So if I could stop the infection from ever starting I would be so much better off. Any opinions out there??
    It is doubtful that one of the SCI nurses will comment on the use of Microcyn/Vetericyn. Frankly, I can't advise you in the use of Microcyn/Vetericyn for Interstitial Cystitis either, since I have no experience with it for that problem. If you are using intermittent catheterization to manage you bladder, it is conceivable that you could instill Microcyn/Vetericyn, retain it in your bladder for a period of time and then drain your bladder. It is possible that this kind of therapy could work for you to reduce your bladder infections. If after reading all the material here, you think this is something you wish to try, there are a number of posts that discuss where to purchase Vetericyn. You will have to work out the amount of Vetericyn you wish to instill and the time you wish to retain it in your bladder. Sorry I can't be more help.

    All the best,
    GJ

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