View Poll Results: I believe that clinical trials are necessary for curing spinal cord injury:

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  • Yes

    52 92.86%
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    4 7.14%
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Thread: Next decade offers promise for treatment of spinal cord injuries

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post

    (snip)

    So, here we are still working on a shoestring budget and people are expecting miracles.

    Wise.
    Aprain,

    This is one of the reasons I expect to spend the rest of my life in a chair. (Wise, this is not a dig at you or your peers. I appreciate the work you do but I am a practical person and do not expect miracles)

    Tom

  2. #62
    Senior Member Foolish Old's Avatar
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    What rational person thinks that fewer scientists investigating SCI would be better for this community?

    Who are the star players eager to take the field if the current players leave?

    Who thinks that derogatory statements based on ignorant suspicion advance our cause?

    We all want a cure for SCI. Let's stop venting our frustrations on the only scientists who care enough to work for SCI reversal. The reason this community gets so little is because of the people who turn their energy into anger, and then turn that anger against the only people with the ability to provide what we seek.

    There is enough frustration in this work without our community trying to scapegoat scientist for our misfortune.
    Foolish

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

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  3. #63
    Senior Member DA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    DA,

    Stop this nonsense. It is not because I don't like scientists to be ragged by people like you. It is because you are so wrong. Do you really think that we can afford to be choosers of what scientists will work in spinal cord injury? People are not working in our field because there is so little money in this field. In part, it is because this community, including you, have not supported research.
    That is a bunch of bull crap. many here and including myself have supported research.
    and it pisses me off that you would just dismiss away all many have done. you have no
    clue to how difficult it was for me, a quad, to travel cross country to san diego.
    the mississippi trip was hard too but i manage to keep a smile on my face.
    does the word paralysis means anything to you but sitting in wheelchairs. with your attitude
    you couldn't last 5 minutes as a mid quad and you certainly wouldn't be jetting around the world. cr tried to live up to the standard you expect from us and it got him death. i dont know about anyone else but my daily goal is trying to stay alive while sci tries to kill me, EVERY FREAKIN DAY. i only wish i could have the money to buy a cure, but i don't. i work 2 jobs and barely make ends. then you spit on my efforts.

    No good business would expect manna from heaven. In 1995, NIH was spending $45 million per year on spinal cord injury, a problem generally acknowledged to be the most difficult problem in neuroscience and one that was not believed to be solvable until the mid-1990's. By 2001, it was perhaps $80 million per year. From 2001 on, spinal cord injury research funding has declined.

    We never got significant clinical trial funding from NIH or industry. At the very most the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation raised perhaps $20 million per year. The clinical trials never materialized for the lack of funding. Even when we did get our act together to lobby Congress for the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, we did not stick to it, to make sure that funds were appropriated.

    Why do you think that the multiple sclerosis community has been able to raise five times as much money for research as the spinal cord injury community? It is because they fought for research funds. They donated, they encouraged industry to do the trials, and they lobbied the government. There are not many more people with MS than there are with SCI.

    So, here we are still working on a shoestring budget and people are expecting miracles.

    Wise.
    MS dont have doctors waging a war against MS. Will someone with MS please come forward and school DA on how doctors scream no hope ever to improve MS.
    Maybe the ole just accept MS...You're so lucky to have MS... Someone with MS can do everything an able body person can do...no breakthrough for MS now, not in your life time, not in 1,000 years. the sci community is discouraged from hope and the drive to find a cure endlessly. and you know all the weak minds that buy into that. yet you free pass doctors while blaming us. if we didnt care, we wouldn't be here.

    btw, what have MS gotten from 5 times more money? like the sci community, NOTHING. and you know MS is probably easier to cure than SCI...Right?

  4. #64
    Senior Member DA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish Old View Post
    What rational person thinks that fewer scientists investigating SCI would be better for this community?

    Who are the star players eager to take the field if the current players leave?

    Who thinks that derogatory statements based on ignorant suspicion advance our cause?

    We all want a cure for SCI. Let's stop venting our frustrations on the only scientists who care enough to work for SCI reversal. The reason this community gets so little is because of the people who turn their energy into anger, and then turn that anger against the only people with the ability to provide what we seek.

    There is enough frustration in this work without our community trying to scapegoat scientist for our misfortune.
    ass kissing will not get you that sercret phone call in the night with a cure for your ass kissing.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by DA View Post
    That is a bunch of bull crap. many here and including myself have supported research.
    and it pisses me off that you would just dismiss away all many have done. you have no
    clue to how difficult it was for me, a quad, to travel cross country to san diego.
    the mississippi trip was hard too but i manage to keep a smile on my face.
    does the word paralysis means anything to you but sitting in wheelchairs. with your attitude
    you couldn't last 5 minutes as a mid quad and you certainly wouldn't be jetting around the world. cr tried to live up to the standard you expect from us and it got him death. i dont know about anyone else but my daily goal is trying to stay alive while sci tries to kill me, EVERY FREAKIN DAY. i only wish i could have the money to buy a cure, but i don't. i work 2 jobs and barely make ends. then you spit on my efforts.

    MS dont have doctors waging a war against MS. Will someone with MS please come forward and school DA on how doctors scream no hope ever to improve MS.
    Maybe the ole just accept MS...You're so lucky to have MS... Someone with MS can do everything an able body person can do...no breakthrough for MS now, not in your life time, not in 1,000 years. the sci community is discouraged from hope and the drive to find a cure endlessly. and you know all the weak minds that buy into that. yet you free pass doctors while blaming us. if we didnt care, we wouldn't be here.

    btw, what have MS gotten from 5 times more money? like the sci community, NOTHING. and you know MS is probably easier to cure than SCI...Right?
    Let me start from bottom up.
    • ... you know MS is probably easier to cure than SCI... Right?
    - MS is likely to be more difficult to cure than SCI because it requires therapies to stop the progression and therapies to restore function. Most of the effort in MS right now is devoted to stopping progression of the disease. Restoration of function will require regeneration. The demyelination is associated with axonal loss so that even when remyelination occurs, recovery is not complete. Be glad that you don't have MS. It is a pretty bad disease.

    • What has MS gotten from their research?
    They have gotten a dozen therapies that more or less will stop progression of the disease. The interferon ABC therapies have slowed or stopped intermittent relapsing MS most of the people. Some therapies may be working for the chronic progressive MS. They now have the first drug Ampyra that improve function.

    •the sci community is discouraged from hope and the drive to find a cure endlessly.
    Are you going to blame doctors and scientists for your lack of hope? Please, look at what you have been writing... throwing scientists off the Victoria Falls? Please don't blame that on doctors and scientists.

    pisses me off that you would just dismiss away all many have done. you have no clue to how difficult it was for me, a quad, to travel cross country to san diego.
    I don't dismiss all that many and you have done. You and I have been together at meetings and I am grateful. However, I don't think that you support spinal cord research or NIH on CareCure. If you do, please say so. You just have press some keys on your keyboard to do so. You don't have to send any money or travel anywhere to say that you support research. Your support of research is not apparent from your posts.

    Let me make sure that people understand what I am talking about when I say NIH funding and why I am upset by your statements. NIH distributes about $30 billion a year for biomedical research in the United States. About 70% of it goes in the form of grants that scientists compete for. That competition is very tough. About 10% of grant applications are being funded and probably over 100,000 scientists write applications for about 10,000 new grants being funded every year. Within NIH, the deck is stacked. Each institute has a budget and certain diseases in their portfolio. NINDS has spinal cord injury and it has about 400 neurological diseases. Spinal cord injury has to compete with all the other neurological conditions, and as you have heard, is not faring particularly well. There are probably only about 50 or so spinal cord injury research grants. The deck, however, is stacked to some extent. NIH does have special programs to encourage research in certain areas. So, for example, there are Parkinson's centers, head injury centers, and other programs that are set aside from the normal free-for-all competiton. The Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act would have given us such a program but, even though we got the act passed, we never stuck around and pushed for the appropriations for this program. So, now, more than a year after the passage of the CDRPA, there is still no CDRPA program at NIH. We need every scientist that we can encourage to apply to the NIH for spinal cord injury grant funding. Every grant every scientist gets helps the field. It doesn't help for you to say silly things like throwing them off the Victoria falls if they believe the cure will take more than a decade to arrive.

    Wise.

  6. #66
    Senior Member lunasicc42's Avatar
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    leif, I would be interested if you could answer the question I posed to you earlier in this thread. I am curious
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by t8burst View Post
    Aprain,

    This is one of the reasons I expect to spend the rest of my life in a chair. (Wise, this is not a dig at you or your peers. I appreciate the work you do but I am a practical person and do not expect miracles)

    Tom
    Tom,

    It is too early to give up. We have been making progress.
    • Clinical trial networks. Many people told me that there was no way that we could ever set up a spinal cord injury clinical trial network in China. There has never been one and where were we going to get the money? Chinese doctors hate each other and don't like to collaborate. All that was true and, despite that, many of the top spinal cord injury doctors in China are working together. A SCINetUSA is starting. We may even have a SCNetEurope and SCINetIndia by next year. We are starting trials in China and will soon do so in the United States. I don't know where we are going to get the money but we are starting anyway.
    • Stem cells are coming together. Despite nearly a decade of suppression, stem cell research is alive and kicking in the United States. We know a lot more about pluripotency. Recently, our laboratory discovered how to stop teratoma formation in the spinal cord. We are solving all the nitty gritty problems that are necessary, including how to ship and transplant the cells safely, how to do combination therapies, and how to evaluate the spinal cords. By the way, our CN102B will the be first study that will have done diffusion tensor imaging of the spinal cord and the effect of cell transplants on these images. We are developing the first surgically controlled cell transplant protocol.
    • Lots of therapies are waiting in the wings, ready to go into trial. These include Nogo antibody, the rho blocker Cethrin, the nogo receptor protein, and chondroitinase. There are many cells that need to be evaluated, including bone marrow cells, neural stem cells, and induced pluripotent stem cells differentiated to neural stem cells. Lithium and Schwann cells have been reported to be more beneficial than either treatment alone in animal studies. Decorin is being studied by Stephen Davies and if he shows that it is effective in chronic spinal cord injury, it can go quickly through phase 1 in Colorado and then phase 2 and 3 in ChinaSCINet and SCINetUSA.

    Wise.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Foolish Old's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DA View Post
    ass kissing will not get you that sercret phone call in the night with a cure for your ass kissing.
    If I was an ass-kisser, you'd be getting smooched all day, troll-boy. Why not find a less destructive way to satisfy your juvenile need for attention?
    Foolish

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

    "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

  9. #69
    [Quote = Wise Young; 1194554] Tom,


    Es demasiado pronto para darse por vencido. Hemos estado haciendo progresos.
    • Redes de ensayos cl√*nicos. Mucha gente me dijo que no hab√*a manera de que alguna vez podr√*a crear una lesi√≥n de la m√©dula espinal de la red de ensayos cl√*nicos en China. Nunca ha habido una y d√≥nde √*bamos a sacar el dinero? m√©dicos chinos se odian y no les gusta colaborar. Todo lo que era cierto y, a pesar de eso, muchos de los mejores m√©dicos de lesiones en la m√©dula espinal China est√°n trabajando juntos. Un SCINetUSA se est√° iniciando. Podemos incluso tener un SCNetEurope SCINetIndia y el pr√≥ximo a√Īo. Estamos empezando los ensayos en China y pronto lo har√° en los Estados Unidos. No s√© d√≥nde vamos a sacar el dinero, pero estamos empezando de todos modos.
    • Las c√©lulas madre se est√°n uniendo. A pesar de casi una d√©cada de represi√≥n, la investigaci√≥n con c√©lulas madre est√° viva y coleando en los Estados Unidos. Sabemos mucho m√°s acerca de pluripotencia. Recientemente, nuestro laboratorio descubierto la manera de detener la formaci√≥n de teratomas en la m√©dula espinal. Estamos resolviendo todos los problemas Nitty Gritty que sean necesarios, incluyendo la forma de transportar y trasplante de las c√©lulas de forma segura, c√≥mo hacer tratamientos combinados, y c√≥mo evaluar la m√©dula espinal. Por cierto, nuestro CN102B ser√° el primer estudio que se habr√° hecho de im√°genes por tensor de difusi√≥n de la m√©dula espinal y el efecto de los trasplantes de c√©lulas en estas im√°genes. Estamos desarrollando el primer protocolo quir√ļrgico controlado trasplante de c√©lulas.
    • Muchas de las terapias est√°n esperando en las alas, listo para entrar en el juicio. Estas incluyen anticuerpos Nogo, el bloqueador de rho Cethrin, la prote√*na Nogo receptor y chondroitinase. Existen muchas c√©lulas que necesitan ser evaluadas, incluyendo las c√©lulas de la m√©dula √≥sea, las c√©lulas madre neurales y c√©lulas madre pluripotentes inducidas diferenciada a las c√©lulas madre neurales. De litio y c√©lulas de Schwann se han divulgado para ser m√°s beneficiosa que cualquier tratamiento por separado en estudios con animales. Decorina est√° siendo estudiado por Stephen Davies y si demuestra que es eficaz en una lesi√≥n cr√≥nica de la m√©dula espinal, puede pasar r√°pidamente a trav√©s de la fase 1 en Colorado y luego la fase 2 y 3 en ChinaSCINet y SCINetUSA.
    Sabio. [/ Quote]

    After of all what have said, do you agree with the prevision of ten years exposed in this chat??

    Tank you

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by aprain View Post
    [Quote = Wise Young; 1194554] Tom,


    Es demasiado pronto para darse por vencido. Hemos estado haciendo progresos.
    • Redes de ensayos cl√*nicos. Mucha gente me dijo que no hab√*a manera de que alguna vez podr√*a crear una lesi√≥n de la m√©dula espinal de la red de ensayos cl√*nicos en China. Nunca ha habido una y d√≥nde √*bamos a sacar el dinero? m√©dicos chinos se odian y no les gusta colaborar. Todo lo que era cierto y, a pesar de eso, muchos de los mejores m√©dicos de lesiones en la m√©dula espinal China est√°n trabajando juntos. Un SCINetUSA se est√° iniciando. Podemos incluso tener un SCNetEurope SCINetIndia y el pr√≥ximo a√Īo. Estamos empezando los ensayos en China y pronto lo har√° en los Estados Unidos. No s√© d√≥nde vamos a sacar el dinero, pero estamos empezando de todos modos.
    • Las c√©lulas madre se est√°n uniendo. A pesar de casi una d√©cada de represi√≥n, la investigaci√≥n con c√©lulas madre est√° viva y coleando en los Estados Unidos. Sabemos mucho m√°s acerca de pluripotencia. Recientemente, nuestro laboratorio descubierto la manera de detener la formaci√≥n de teratomas en la m√©dula espinal. Estamos resolviendo todos los problemas Nitty Gritty que sean necesarios, incluyendo la forma de transportar y trasplante de las c√©lulas de forma segura, c√≥mo hacer tratamientos combinados, y c√≥mo evaluar la m√©dula espinal. Por cierto, nuestro CN102B ser√° el primer estudio que se habr√° hecho de im√°genes por tensor de difusi√≥n de la m√©dula espinal y el efecto de los trasplantes de c√©lulas en estas im√°genes. Estamos desarrollando el primer protocolo quir√ļrgico controlado trasplante de c√©lulas.
    • Muchas de las terapias est√°n esperando en las alas, listo para entrar en el juicio. Estas incluyen anticuerpos Nogo, el bloqueador de rho Cethrin, la prote√*na Nogo receptor y chondroitinase. Existen muchas c√©lulas que necesitan ser evaluadas, incluyendo las c√©lulas de la m√©dula √≥sea, las c√©lulas madre neurales y c√©lulas madre pluripotentes inducidas diferenciada a las c√©lulas madre neurales. De litio y c√©lulas de Schwann se han divulgado para ser m√°s beneficiosa que cualquier tratamiento por separado en estudios con animales. Decorina est√° siendo estudiado por Stephen Davies y si demuestra que es eficaz en una lesi√≥n cr√≥nica de la m√©dula espinal, puede pasar r√°pidamente a trav√©s de la fase 1 en Colorado y luego la fase 2 y 3 en ChinaSCINet y SCINetUSA.
    Sabio. [/ Quote]

    After of all what have said, do you agree with the prevision of ten years exposed in this chat??

    Tank you
    Please do not ask me to predict when a cure will come. I can only say what I hope and what I think is possible or not possible. Neither of these would be reliable or useful to anyone. Science is not the main parameter that determines success of trials. Invariably people misinterpret me or worse claim that I said things that I did not say.

    Wise.

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