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Thread: 'Avatar' Gets Mixed Praise From Paraplegics

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by DA View Post
    my comment was never about the movie. i told dr young we the sci community is treated bad by society....
    Hey, DA, let's go see the movie together. Wise.

  2. #72
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    It's great to get a response Dr. Young. Thanks.

    "1. I don't think that the movie gave the message that all people are the 'problem', only some people who are seeking to destroy it."

    My understanding was that the aliens fought the humans, and that the aliens won.

    "2. Nor did the movie suggest that the environment should be protected above people. It suggested that the environment should be protected from some people, who think that it is okay to destroy it."

    My understanding was the mineral the humans were seeking was important to humans in some way.

    "3. It did not say that paralysis is so bad that you have to dump your body to escape it. In fact, Jake Sully could and would have chosen the other route of curing his body by medical treatment, which was offered to him if he betrayed the Na'vis. It was only after he closed the door on that possibility that he took the other route."

    From what I understand, Pandora is some sort of "paradise". But it's a false one, and especially for us paralyzed folk could be very damaging. Even healthy people have trouble dealing with it mentally: http://www.newsrecord.org/sections/e...dise-1.2134871 I worked building 3D worlds in software back in the day, and only after many years realized the goal is to create some sort of alternate reality in which humans have ultimate control, not God. I'm just not interested in that. In a strange way, although paralysis truly sucks, I value the ascetic aspects of my life now. Some of the Christians saints in years past would wear sack cloth, or heavy chains. This would totally ground them in reality, not some fantasy paradise.

    "4. I find it strange that some people are offended that an alien race would take on a human religion (Christianity). After all, didn't God give his only son to save humankind, not aliens of other worlds.'

    I personally would not be offended at all if aliens became, or are already, Christians.

    "4. Finally, avatar has four meanings. According to Mirriam-Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Avatar
    Quote:
    1 : the incarnation of a Hindu deity (as Vishnu)
    2 a : an incarnation in human form b : an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person
    3 : a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity
    4 : an electronic image that represents and is manipulated by a computer user (as in a computer game)
    Which one of these meanings do you find so offensive that you would not want to see the movie?"

    Number 1. For me that violates the First Commandment.

  3. #73
    Just some thoughts re "Million Dollar Baby" -

    I think there was (is) some over-reaction and maybe unfair criticism against the film (sci storyline) and Eastwood himself. The SCI wasn't central to the story and it wasn't a commentary on disability or those who become disabled. There was no single judgment or value imposed on the audience regarding disability or quality of life. If anything, there was greater commentary, with the negative stereotype and judgment, against people on welfare (as selfish, greedy, ignorant, lazy, cheats).

    I think MDB was basically a story about the two main characters, Swank and Eastwood, their relationship and their tragedies. I never felt it was, nor intended to be, an uplifting story of triumph, glory, and inspiration. The ending was sad and tragic. They both gave up (although Eastwood tried to give her hope and encourage her to go on living for a minute there), but that was consistent with the basic tone and theme throughout.

    Side note on "Gran Torino": It wasn't about Eastwood not wanting to live, as he was already dying with a terminal condition, but given that knowledge and inevitability, he sacrificed his life, in a sense, to help his neighbors and allow them to live "freely".

    There was a lot of discussion on MDB when it came out, so if you do a search, you'll get quite a bit of interesting debates on that.


    Re. "Avatar" - I haven't seen it yet, but it seems the SCI is central to the story, as is the profit motive underlying any cure, as well as the "avatar project/mission" itself.

    DA, I would think this would be YOUR kind of movie!

  4. #74
    Ooh, Chick, I have been looking for somebody to go to see the movie with for a second time. To tell you the truth, I have almost never done that for any movie. It would be fun to see it with you and hear your opinion, just like I would love to hear DA's take on the movie.

    I read the discussions on Million Dollar Baby and could not bring myself to see it. I find it hard to see a movie about a young woman who gets spinal-injured, decides that she wants to die, and a man who helps her do so.

    To me, Avatar is a movie that is full of hope and that is one of the reasons why I enjoyed it.

    Wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    Just some thoughts re "Million Dollar Baby" -

    I think there was (is) some over-reaction and maybe unfair criticism against the film (sci storyline) and Eastwood himself. The SCI wasn't central to the story and it wasn't a commentary on disability or those who become disabled. There was no single judgment or value imposed on the audience regarding disability or quality of life. If anything, there was greater commentary, with the negative stereotype and judgment, against people on welfare (as selfish, greedy, ignorant, lazy, cheats).

    I think MDB was basically a story about the two main characters, Swank and Eastwood, their relationship and their tragedies. I never felt it was, nor intended to be, an uplifting story of triumph, glory, and inspiration. The ending was sad and tragic. They both gave up (although Eastwood tried to give her hope and encourage her to go on living for a minute there), but that was consistent with the basic tone and theme throughout.

    Side note on "Gran Torino": It wasn't about Eastwood not wanting to live, as he was already dying with a terminal condition, but given that knowledge and inevitability, he sacrificed his life, in a sense, to help his neighbors and allow them to live "freely".

    There was a lot of discussion on MDB when it came out, so if you do a search, you'll get quite a bit of interesting debates on that.


    Re. "Avatar" - I haven't seen it yet, but it seems the SCI is central to the story, as is the profit motive underlying any cure, as well as the "avatar project/mission" itself.

    DA, I would think this would be YOUR kind of movie!

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by ip View Post
    It's great to get a response Dr. Young. Thanks.

    "1. I don't think that the movie gave the message that all people are the 'problem', only some people who are seeking to destroy it."

    My understanding was that the aliens fought the humans, and that the aliens won.

    "2. Nor did the movie suggest that the environment should be protected above people. It suggested that the environment should be protected from some people, who think that it is okay to destroy it."

    My understanding was the mineral the humans were seeking was important to humans in some way.

    "3. It did not say that paralysis is so bad that you have to dump your body to escape it. In fact, Jake Sully could and would have chosen the other route of curing his body by medical treatment, which was offered to him if he betrayed the Na'vis. It was only after he closed the door on that possibility that he took the other route."

    From what I understand, Pandora is some sort of "paradise". But it's a false one, and especially for us paralyzed folk could be very damaging. Even healthy people have trouble dealing with it mentally: http://www.newsrecord.org/sections/e...dise-1.2134871 I worked building 3D worlds in software back in the day, and only after many years realized the goal is to create some sort of alternate reality in which humans have ultimate control, not God. I'm just not interested in that. In a strange way, although paralysis truly sucks, I value the ascetic aspects of my life now. Some of the Christians saints in years past would wear sack cloth, or heavy chains. This would totally ground them in reality, not some fantasy paradise.

    "4. I find it strange that some people are offended that an alien race would take on a human religion (Christianity). After all, didn't God give his only son to save humankind, not aliens of other worlds.'

    I personally would not be offended at all if aliens became, or are already, Christians.

    "4. Finally, avatar has four meanings. According to Mirriam-Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Avatar
    Quote:
    1 : the incarnation of a Hindu deity (as Vishnu)
    2 a : an incarnation in human form b : an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person
    3 : a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity
    4 : an electronic image that represents and is manipulated by a computer user (as in a computer game)
    Which one of these meanings do you find so offensive that you would not want to see the movie?"

    Number 1. For me that violates the First Commandment.
    ip, you have a very different view. Thank you for sharing it.

    I am sorry that I edited my post after you had quoted it for your answer... the way it was worded the first time, I suggested that people would be offended by depiction of the Na'vis as being Christian. That was opposite of what I meant. I was thinking how strange that people expect an alien race to have a human religion. To tell you the truth, I didn't see the alien interactions with the tree as being "religious" but simply a natural phenomenon.

    One movie that I am really looking forward to is called "Ocean". At least on previews, there are some truly awe-inspiring and beautiful pictures of ocean creatures. I am not into nature worship but do believe in respecting and not destroying nature. After all, this is what the Boy Scouts are taught. We should not sully the earth with our garbage and this should apply to other planets as well.

    The movie also depicts a potential scenario when corporate earth reaches other planets. After all, we have already littered the only space objects within our reach, i.e. the moon and Mars, with our space vehicles and junk. Think of what will happen if some mineral that is valuable and unobtainable on earth is discovered on them.

    Wise.

  6. #76
    Senior Member DA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Hey, DA, let's go see the movie together. Wise.
    at the movies or should i get a bootleg that fell off the truck?

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Polett View Post
    Sorry Todd, I don't get your point?

    I don't see any film focusing on DA's point of view, or mine for that matter. I just stated that I preferred movies like Avatar rather than Million Dollar Baby.

    I agree with you 100% on your statement about quality of life.
    Then I apologize. I don't care your liking one type of film or thought process over another, but it seemed your misgivings with the ones you didn't like wanted you to censor them in some way, at least that's what I took from your post. I think all sides of the spectrum on what constitutes quality of life and worth living are valid and subjective.


  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DA View Post
    at the movies or should i get a bootleg that fell off the truck?
    Hmm, I wish that I could watch the movie in 3D with you guys over internet. That would be fun. Wise.

  9. #79
    I found it interesting that, in the movie, the Tree was unable to bring a person back to life and that a healthy living person was needed to do the transfer of memory or whatever.

    By the way, here is a picture of Zöe Saldana and the character Neytiri, which she played:


  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    To me, Avatar is a movie that is full of hope and that is one of the reasons why I enjoyed it.

    Wise.
    I agree. Near the beginning, when he finally stretched his avatar's legs and started running, I couldn't help but feel exhilarated and hungry for that sensation. I thought it was a wonderful film.
    "I'm lost. I'm no guide, but I'm by your side." - Pearl Jam

    "It decomposes, mendicant, therefore, truly, one calls this the world." -- Loka Sutta

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