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Thread: SCINetUSA Website

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by kivi66 View Post
    Dr.Wise,It's not negativity or positivity,but criticism.Not that I have right to criticise you,just possibility,provided by you,I realise that.And what I want that you provide too is evidence of success,achieved by you or your people in restoration structure and functionality some relatively big mammal's chronically damaged spinal cord.Without such evidence all human trial's expectations not more than speculation.And I have two questions.When do you suppose will be published work done by Kai Liu and whether you planning practical appliance of this finding in human trials? Thank you.
    kivi66,

    You can of course demand that all therapies be tested in large animals before they are tested in human clinical trial but I don't think that you know what you are talking about. You obviously have never taken care of a spinal-injured animal and have no idea of what is involved in doing large animal studies. Monkey studies are as or more expensive than doing human studies. Although several groups are trying, there are currently no large animal (i.e. monkey, dog, cat, pig, sheep) model of spinal cord injury that have been validated for efficacy assessment. What you are advocating will make preclinical studies much more expensive and slow down progress in the field.

    Although there use to be more large animal studies (I use to do all my work on cats), large animal spinal cord injury studies are rare today. To my knowledge, there are only two laboratories in the world currently doing monkey spinal cord injury experiments today (Almudena Ramon-Cueto) and Dr. Xiao-ming Xu from the University of Indiana doing the experiments in Shishanbana in China. There is one group trying to do a pig spinal cord injury model in the United States and that is in Shriner's Hospital in Philadelphia. I believe that there are only two groups in the United States doing cat spinal cord injury experiments. Large animal studies, if they are done at all, are usually for one purpose alone and that is to establish the safety of the therapy. For that purpose, for example, there are commercial companies that do dog or monkey experiments. These for-contract companies charge a great deal for these studies and the goal is often to show that the cell transplants do not cause cancer or other toxic effects.

    What is your goal? Is your interest in tearing down the clinical trials that we are planning to do? Why? Do you have something else that you think is worthwhile testing? Is so, let's hear it. You are being excessively negative.

    Wise.

  2. #62
    I understand his concern, but hardly any research is done on large animals anymore. It would seem to me, that they have studied mice for so long that they would know which parts of the mice anatomy most closely replicate humans.I believe there is a primate research Center at UCSD and that someone was doing research with primates and SCI. But what I have read about the primate research Center there is that it is ridiculously expensive to test on primates, with a large portion of the expenses coming from security costs. They constantly have animal rights protesters there.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by kivi66 View Post
    Dr.Wise,It's not negativity or positivity,but criticism.Not that I have right to criticise you,just possibility,provided by you,I realise that.And what I want that you provide too is evidence of success,achieved by you or your people in restoration structure and functionality some relatively big mammal's chronically damaged spinal cord.Without such evidence all human trial's expectations not more than speculation.And I have two questions.When do you suppose will be published work done by Kai Liu and whether you planning practical appliance of this finding in human trials? Thank you.
    Great. If you do want to do research, and research on other than humans, I for sure support you. Good research can be done. But, please report back youre findings. Thank you.

  4. #64
    Leif,all what I can help is stabilize vertebra and remove bone fragments or herniated disk,but spinal cord itself is "terra incognita" for me.
    Dr.Wise,there were two questions at the end of my post,may I have answers?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by kivi66 View Post
    Leif,all what I can help is stabilize vertebra and remove bone fragments or herniated disk,but spinal cord itself is "terra incognita" for me.
    Dr.Wise,there were two questions at the end of my post,may I have answers?
    Kivi66,

    The paper by Kai Liu has been accepted for publication and I hope that it will be coming out soon. I will post when it does. At the present, we do not have any plans to apply this therapy because it involves insertion of a gene with viruses and much work still remains to be done to ensure the safety of this procedure.

    Wise.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckFoss View Post
    Dr. Young, thank you for explaining (once again) the details involved with the SCINetUSA clinical trials. Your patience and drive to help us understand and to get folks involved is extraordinary!
    This detailed explanation would be a great addition to the JustADollarPlease site. I think people are more apt to donate to a cause they can wrap their head around. The history and break-down of the trial phases was very informative. I know you've explained all this before, but having this amount of detail in one place on JustADollarPlease will help convince potentail donors who are on the fence.
    Thanks again.
    I second that.

  7. #67
    Ditto on the thank you and suggestion of having this info on the JADP site.

  8. #68
    Senior Member lunasicc42's Avatar
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    same here
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  9. #69
    Wise, you have convinced or taught us that rat studies are necessary, Hopefully your human trials in Hong Kong surpass these animal trials. I belive that results of these trials will move the converstion to a new place. Your trials offer belief in the future for all of us. Let's hoep your trials will show real results and not comaprtive numbers. I know you know what some of us are looking for. Just get the studies going and put the rat conversations behind us.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Kivi66,

    The paper by Kai Liu has been accepted for publication and I hope that it will be coming out soon. I will post when it does. At the present, we do not have any plans to apply this therapy because it involves insertion of a gene with viruses and much work still remains to be done to ensure the safety of this procedure.

    Wise.
    Dr.Wise,I have some more questions (lunasicc42,hope they are legitimate).What is your time estimation for completion work that "still remains to be done to ensure the safety of this procedure"? And this,I once talked to Dr.Samuil Rabinovich from Novosibirsk Immunotherapy Center(http://www.transplantation.ru) and asked him about his human trials with stem cells transplantation into lesion site in chronically injured spinal cord.What he answered is that there were not at all any improvements in patients' condition or it was very insignificant,and that financing of his program was canceled;he was especially pessimistic about possibility to repair demyelinated spinal cord.Info about results on internet site say different but Samuil Rabinovich himself is not there by now.What I want to ask you is may be you have more detailed information about what exactly was transplanted there and how your approach in your human trials will differ from his.Thank you.

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