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Thread: INTENSE locomotor training helps patients in China?

  1. #1

    INTENSE locomotor training helps patients in China?

    I heard that in China they're(family members moving legs for 6 hrs a day) doing locomotor training on "complete" injuries right after surgery(whenever deemed safe for patient) and having good results. Supposedly, these patients are ASIA A and this procedure is coverting most of them to ASIA C&D. Is this attributed to the "intense" locomotor training, or are the patients in China not classified correctly(patient is not a true ASIA A)? Anybody know???
    Donnie: Dr. Xiao, What are your thoughts on a cure/combination therapy for SCI's??
    CG Xiao: Donnie, I don't want to disappoint you, but I think it is impossible to restore the continuity of the cord or "bridge the gap" in the near future, let's say: 50 years. Dr Wise Young has been my most respected scientist in SCI. He has dedicated and contributed to SCI no other can match.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
    I heard that in China they're(family members moving legs for 6 hrs a day) doing locomotor training on "complete" injuries right after surgery(whenever deemed safe for patient) and having good results. Supposedly, these patients are ASIA A and this procedure is coverting most of them to ASIA C&D. Is this attributed to the "intense" locomotor training, or are the patients in China not classified correctly(patient is not a true ASIA A)? Anybody know???
    Donnie,

    I frequently visit the hospital where they do this locomotor training, in Kunming. In general, the training does not usually restore walking to people who are ASIA A unless something is done to treat them. On the other hand, this training does restore walking to many people who are incomplete. I have described the kunming work here on these forums many times over the years.

    Recently, the group there found that if they exposed the spinal cord of people who are ASIA A, during the first several weeks after injury, remove all adhesions and, if the spinal cord feels soft, cut into the cord to remove the dead tissue underneath, about 50% of their ASIA A patients recover walking. They also believe that there is a need for intense locomotor traiing after any kind of therapy to regenerate the spinal cord.

    The program that they have is certainly among the most intense that I have seen and I think their results are in keeping with the experience of U.S. groups who have used intensive locomotor training after injury. In patients who are incomplete, particularly C & D, the likelihood of walking recovery is >90%. Few ASIA A recover walking.

    I am sure that the patients were classified correctly. We have trained them extensively to do careful ASIA (American Spinal Injury Association) examinations. Over the past four years, I have seen some patients who are ASIA A become ASIA D, the first that I have ever seen in my career.

    Wise.

  3. #3
    Wise, 50% ASIA A walking recovery is an amazing stat. Is the surgury technique gaining any acceptance/being adopted outside of China?
    "So I have stayed as I am, without regret, seperated from the normal human condition." Guy Sajer

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    Wise, 50% ASIA A walking recovery is an amazing stat. Is the surgury technique gaining any acceptance/being adopted outside of China?
    There are surgeons who are interested and we have been trying to get a discussion going concerning doeing a clinical trial in the U.S.

    Wise.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Imight's Avatar
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    Dr Young. How many RMBs for the training per session?

  6. #6
    Dr Young, how about patients that are 5 years or more post injury, Is there anything that can be done so they will benefit from locomotor therapy. (Like me).

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
    Is this attributed to the "intense" locomotor training, or are the patients in China not classified correctly(patient is not a true ASIA A)? Anybody know???
    Wise has said that limiting the rehab hours put in is akin to becoming a champion ping pong player with ping pong practice of only a couple of hours a day.

    More is better and I'm ready even if I'm a "control" patient.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mikek's Avatar
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    I know that it was true for me 41 years ago.I was in physical therapy all day for 8 months in Kings County hospital,Brooklyn,NY.I walked out on crutches,regained bladder and bowel control.In the next 2 years I was walking unassited.In 1998 I had an untethering and only got 6 weeks of rehab and sent home to be an outpatient 2 days a week.With age comes cell death and gradual loss of function due to mylan loss or motor and sensory nuerons.During my walking incomplete years I worked all throughout Asia and this sounds most promising.However I need some fresh cells now being 59 and running out of time.

  9. #9
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    Are they performing locomotor training with collars and TLSO's on? Dr. Young, what is your thought on doing this so quickly before precautions are lifted?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Imight View Post
    Dr Young. How many RMBs for the training per session?
    Imight,

    I don't know. For a long time, it was very cheap because family members provided most of the help. However, now I see more people in uniforms helping with the walking, suggesting that the families are paying for people to do it than having family members do it. In part, this is because Chinese are becoming more affluent and there are people who can afford to pay others to do these things. The quality of the locomotor assistance, however, is not very high.

    Wise.

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