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Thread: power add-on for manual chair

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by forestranger52 View Post
    Hey Mac, did you have any problem hooking it up yourself with our hand function?

    The neighborhood where you filmed looks very similar to the alleys I used to use as a kid. Unfortunately my neighborhood went to hell and now its mostly abandoned houses and shootings.
    It was my first time hooking up to the zx1 and had no problems, just kept hitting the speed control w/ my pinky. The video was shot in Hammond, indiana, thats where Larry lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by takenaback View Post
    I think your criticism is a little strong, the E-Motion M15 is amazing technology and if you are going to compare apples with apples I would probably compare the ZX1 to the Alber e-fix. The E-Motion M15 requires propulsion which still gives the consumer some exercise even though it is power assisted. I believe the following or thereabouts is the justification for many applications to funding bodies .

    "e-motion merges active mobility with therapeutic benefit. Even wheelchair drivers with impaired strength can move around independently with the help of e-motion.
    Users have a chance to stay mobile while exercising their vital functions. The load on muscles and joints is relieved. Only minimal force is required to drive the chair alone and the driver’s radius of action is increased. e-motion makes an important contribution to its owner’s independence. "

    So there is some therapeutic benefit justified by physical therapists or the like as to why the particular clients needs to maintain physical movement instead of being placed straight in a powerchair.

    Your earlier video shows you stuck in 2 places that I would never get stuck in my E-Motion M15 wheels but I do have access to the remote control enabling a change to high speed whenever I want, if you don’t have this option you have E-Motion M14? You also say that you have code errors after only 4 months, did you buy your wheels brand-new? I don't see many complaints about the E-Motion M15 wheels on this forum, not like the M12s. I have had mine for in excess of 12 months without problems and in use all the time.

    The ZX1 is amazing technology for rigid frame wheelchairs and I have been on Pat's waiting list for some time, now Spinergy of course. I just wanted to bring a bit of perspective to the conversation as I intend to have the best of all worlds and this includes, the ZX1, E-Motion M15 and manual wheels. I can see a place for all these devices but if you compare the ZX1 to the Alber e-fix the ZX1 wins hands down.
    I do have the remote, so please make the video of yourself going up and down the ramp with the m15s, i got stuck because my casters are 1" and Larry has 1.5 "
    C5/C6 Complete since 08/22/09

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by takenaback View Post
    I think your criticism is a little strong, the E-Motion M15 is amazing technology and if you are going to compare apples with apples I would probably compare the ZX1 to the Alber e-fix. The E-Motion M15 requires propulsion which still gives the consumer some exercise even though it is power assisted. I believe the following or thereabouts is the justification for many applications to funding bodies .
    Mac is saying they "suck" for him, I had E-motions in the past and they "sucked" for me too. They are both designed to solve the same problem so I don't think they are apples and oranges. If they solved my problem, I'd still be using them and would've had no reason to develop the ZX1. The e-fix is essentially the same as the emotion except that the switch that activates the hub motor is moved from the joystick to the pushrim switch. Innovative? Yes. Amazing technology? No. These hub motors have very little torque and are limited to 6 degree inclines. They do give you a boost when outside and help get you up an ADA type ramp but they are terrible inside. Everytime you go through a doorway you better be careful and have it the slowest speed because if your pushrim hits the door jam it'll reverse the motors jamming you into the doorway. Same thing with furniture and cabinets, walls etc.

    "e-motion merges active mobility with therapeutic benefit. Even wheelchair drivers with impaired strength can move around independently with the help of e-motion.
    Users have a chance to stay mobile while exercising their vital functions. The load on muscles and joints is relieved. Only minimal force is required to drive the chair alone and the driver’s radius of action is increased. e-motion makes an important contribution to its owner’s independence. "

    So there is some therapeutic benefit justified by physical therapists or the like as to why the particular clients needs to maintain physical movement instead of being placed straight in a powerchair.
    I think that's a load of you know what. You are not pushing yourself around, you are merely activating electronic switches in the pushrim that run the hub motors. I guarantee I'm getting way more therapeutic benefit using the ZX1. With the ZX1 you simply release it when you don't need it. I probably push more manually than not. I don't use the ZX1 when I'm at home or around the shop, and I often go out without it depending on where I'm going.
    With E-motions you would have to transfer into a separate chair.
    Your earlier video shows you stuck in 2 places that I would never get stuck in my E-Motion M15 wheels but I do have access to the remote control enabling a change to high speed whenever I want, if you don’t have this option you have E-Motion M14? You also say that you have code errors after only 4 months, did you buy your wheels brand-new? I don't see many complaints about the E-Motion M15 wheels on this forum, not like the M12s. I have had mine for in excess of 12 months without problems and in use all the time.
    The reason Mac got stuck in the videos is because he wasn't familiar with how the ZX1 works. I'm sure Larry told him that when you dock into the ZX1 it's preferable to have your manual wheels as close to the ground as possible so as not to change your rear seat to floor height. This works well on flat surfaces but when you go on uneven terrain the manual wheels can keep the drive wheels from getting traction. In that case you simply hit the actuator button on the joystick and pull back the joystick to raise your manual wheels off the ground more(up to an inch). If your small front casters get stuck you can just lean back to get the weight off them or even pop a wheelie, there is an anti-tip feature built in, to get drive through the obstacle.
    The ZX1 is amazing technology for rigid frame wheelchairs and I have been on Pat's waiting list for some time, now Spinergy of course. I just wanted to bring a bit of perspective to the conversation as I intend to have the best of all worlds and this includes, the ZX1, E-Motion M15 and manual wheels. I can see a place for all these devices but if you compare the ZX1 to the Alber e-fix the ZX1 wins hands down.
    I hope I don't sound defensive and it's no way a personal attack on you or intentional E-motion bashing, it's just my perspective. When you get your ZX1, I bet you'll have your E-motions on Ebay within a week.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by pattherat View Post
    Mac is saying they "suck" for him, I had E-motions in the past and they "sucked" for me too. They are both designed to solve the same problem so I don't think they are apples and oranges. If they solved my problem, I'd still be using them and would've had no reason to develop the ZX1. The e-fix is essentially the same as the emotion except that the switch that activates the hub motor is moved from the joystick to the pushrim switch. Innovative? Yes. Amazing technology? No. These hub motors have very little torque and are limited to 6 degree inclines. They do give you a boost when outside and help get you up an ADA type ramp but they are terrible inside. Everytime you go through a doorway you better be careful and have it the slowest speed because if your pushrim hits the door jam it'll reverse the motors jamming you into the doorway. Same thing with furniture and cabinets, walls etc.
    I think that's a load of you know what. You are not pushing yourself around, you are merely activating electronic switches in the pushrim that run the hub motors. I guarantee I'm getting way more therapeutic benefit using the ZX1. With the ZX1 you simply release it when you don't need it. I probably push more manually than not. I don't use the ZX1 when I'm at home or around the shop, and I often go out without it depending on where I'm going.
    With E-motions you would have to transfer into a separate chair.

    The reason Mac got stuck in the videos is because he wasn't familiar with how the ZX1 works. I'm sure Larry told him that when you dock into the ZX1 it's preferable to have your manual wheels as close to the ground as possible so as not to change your rear seat to floor height. This works well on flat surfaces but when you go on uneven terrain the manual wheels can keep the drive wheels from getting traction. In that case you simply hit the actuator button on the joystick and pull back the joystick to raise your manual wheels off the ground more(up to an inch). If your small front casters get stuck you can just lean back to get the weight off them or even pop a wheelie, there is an anti-tip feature built in, to get drive through the obstacle.

    I hope I don't sound defensive and it's no way a personal attack on you or intentional E-motion bashing, it's just my perspective. When you get your ZX1, I bet you'll have your E-motions on Ebay within a week.
    C5/C6 Complete since 08/22/09

  4. #184
    Mac is saying they "suck" for him, I had E-motions in the past and they "sucked" for me too.



    His remarks were general, at least not expressed as personal observations i.e. "in my opinion they sucked"
    The e-fix is essentially the same as the emotion except that the switch that activates the hub motor is moved from the joystick to the pushrim switch. Innovative? Yes. Amazing technology? No.
    Maybe electronically similar but the differences in propulsion are stark. Whether or not it is amazing technology is subjective. What do you say to quadriplegic friends I talk to and tell them how amazing the ZX1 is and they say it is just the bottom of a scooter cut off? This is generally when I become defensive of the ZX1.
    I think that's a load of you know what. You are not pushing yourself around, you are merely activating electronic switches in the pushrim that run the hub motors. I guarantee I'm getting way more therapeutic benefit using the ZX1. With the ZX1 you simply release it when you don't need it. I probably push more manually than not. I don't use the ZX1 when I'm at home or around the shop, and I often go out without it depending on where I'm going.
    With E-motions you would have to transfer into a separate chair.
    I tend to agree with you to a certain extent and it depends on the individual circumstance. They are however the reasons my E-Motion M15 wheels were prescribed by physical therapists and also that of a couple of other quadriplegics I know personally. On days that I go for lengthy pushes I am certainly contributing going uphill. I also know that I have physically done something even if it is just a result of repetitively pulling arms backwards and forwards as opposed to pressing a button. When I eventually get the ZX1 I will be doing even less physically as I intend to use both in the one chair without transferring into another.
    The reason Mac got stuck in the videos is because he wasn't familiar with how the ZX1 works.
    I should have said “1 time” as I was trying to draw reference to him getting stuck in his E-Motion M15 wheels not the ZX1.
    I hope I don't sound defensive and it's no way a personal attack on you or intentional E-motion bashing, it's just my perspective.
    No not defensive at all and certainly not a personal attack. It is your perspective and it must be hard for you to remain objective.
    When you get your ZX1, I bet you'll have your E-motions on Ebay within a week.
    In theory I doubt it, but time will tell, sure could use the money. I am hoping I can zoom up and down hills to the local shops and beach as I can only access these areas with a fair degree of danger presently using the M15’s. I have no intention of promoting one product above the other and I'm certainly looking forward to finally receiving a ZX1.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac85 View Post
    This tantamount to a child poking his tongue out, I hope you can contribute to this forum in a mature way in future.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by takenaback View Post
    This tantamount to a child poking his tongue out, I hope you can contribute to this forum in a mature way in future.
    WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE FORUM THAT I HAVE TO BE MATURE DOUCHE BAG? you are the one w/ a fked up avatar. call me what you want buddy, you can say im mature or immature and i dont give a shit... but we are still in the same fuckin chair.

    So all i have to say is one big



    Keep using and promoting your e-motions, and listening to your PTs and like I said - I can't wait until I see a vid of yourself pushing up a ramp... oh wait do I really want to see that?


    Last edited by Mac85; 08-21-2011 at 02:04 AM. Reason: typo
    C5/C6 Complete since 08/22/09

  7. #187
    Now, Now gentlemen.... This board is for discussion not arguing and name calling!!! If you do not have or have not ever ridden in your chair under propulsion by the ZX-1 please do not make assumptions on how well it will or will not accomplish everyday tasks. I have a Zx-1... I love it. I can attach it when I want to and detach it and push when I want. It is an extraordinary device. I have a Quickie GT manual chair. I also have a quickie electric wheelchair. I live 20 miles outside of the town where I go to work, shop, enjoy recreation, and go to church. Before ZX-1 I had to decide before I left home whether to gut it out with my manual chair all day or to take the big, clunky, unwieldy, heavy, non-manuerverable electric chair and load my manual chair in the back of my van incase I needed it. (If battery died or chair malfunctioned, or I needed to be pulled up stairs into a house, etc.) Now I take ZX-1 and I have everything I need for any situation. It handles hills very well and once you learn to ride it getting stuck like happened in the video DOES NOT HAPPEN. On pavement or in grass it pushes me wherever I want to go. ZX-1 rocks and I am excited to see that Spinergy has come on line with Pat to make it available to more people!!! - Grandin
    L1 Complete - Injury 3/12/06 - Grateful to be alive!!!!

  8. #188
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    I've got my pennies ready!

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by pattherat View Post
    As soon as PGDT makes their controller compatible with Lithium batteries, I will definitely be looking into it. They say they are very close. Twice the range, four times the life cycle and half the weight!
    there are already quite a few lithium powered wheelchairs available - shoprider makes at least 2 (and available in us too) and yamaha makes one... and thats just off the top of my head.

  10. #190
    I only know of one powerchair with lithiums and that's the Shoprider Smarty. And I don't know how they are doing it safely with a PGDT controller. The Yamaha JW2, if it uses lithiums, must have their own proprietary controller.
    I just had a meeting with a high up PGDT rep and he says they aren't quite there yet but are working on it.
    Sure you could hook them up and use lithium batteries now but the problem is the battery meter won't be accurate. Lithiums would read full power all day and then just drop to one blinking red light without warning. If you continue to drive on them you risk damaging a cell or the controller could just cut off power with no warning and you'd be stuck somewhere.
    As far as I know there are currently no wheelchair controllers that support lithiums. If anyone knows of any let me know.
    Then there's the problem of finding a failsafe battery management system that will balance the cells while charging.

    Maybe Burgerman will chime in on this and give us his expert opinion.

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