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Thread: Wise, nurse?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mona~on~wheels's Avatar
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    Wise, nurse?

    What part of the brain moves your lower body from the chest down?
    After awhile has it atrophied? Sunk in?
    What good if any does it do to try to exercise these muscles?
    My physiatrist said (for me) they wouldn't improve.
    So in that case does it help my brain?
    Just curious~

    thanks Mona

  2. #2
    Mona,

    The area of the brain responsible for moving your trunk muscles is the premotor cortex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_cortex

    There is a interesting bit at the bottom :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_c...e_motor_cortex about what you're asking.

    I'm not sure if that area of your brain would atrophy but increased blood flow and activity from trying to move are good. Keep in mind there is nothing wrong with the brain in SCI, the signal is interrupted at the site of injury.

    There is a guy in my town who almost fully recovered after 3 years from a SCI and his only advice to me was to keep trying to move everything. Hope I've helped
    No human society, present or past, has lacked music. Music is therefore one of the very few human universals, which puts it on the same level as food and sex.
    Fredric Lieberman

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoso View Post
    Mona,

    The area of the brain responsible for moving your trunk muscles is the premotor cortex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_cortex

    There is a interesting bit at the bottom :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_c...e_motor_cortex about what you're asking.

    I'm not sure if that area of your brain would atrophy but increased blood flow and activity from trying to move are good. Keep in mind there is nothing wrong with the brain in SCI, the signal is interrupted at the site of injury.

    There is a guy in my town who almost fully recovered after 3 years from a SCI and his only advice to me was to keep trying to move everything. Hope I've helped
    Zoso,

    was the guy who recovered almost fully a complete or incomplete.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mona~on~wheels's Avatar
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    Thanks Zoso. Looks like the top of the head. The bottom article is interesting.
    I read somewhere on here that if you didn't use the part of the brain which normally functions to move these areas, eventually the paths in your brain are lost. What I mean is let's say you're incomplete and if you would work on moving again you could. But you don't for whatever reason. 10 years later you're motivated and want to work on moving. It's too late. Your brain can't find the pathway to give the order. kwim? So is it atrophied?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by lakboy View Post
    Zoso,

    was the guy who recovered almost fully a complete or incomplete.
    I don't know but am sure he had to have been incomplete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mona~on~wheels View Post
    Thanks Zoso. Looks like the top of the head. The bottom article is interesting.
    I read somewhere on here that if you didn't use the part of the brain which normally functions to move these areas, eventually the paths in your brain are lost. What I mean is let's say you're incomplete and if you would work on moving again you could. But you don't for whatever reason. 10 years later you're motivated and want to work on moving. It's too late. Your brain can't find the pathway to give the order. kwim? So is it atrophied?
    It could be but it would be a surprise to me. I haven't read anything about the brain atrophying due to not trying to move. With all the hurdles to recover function I think brain atrophy would be listed a lot more on here and other places. I could be wrong.

    I watched the first documentary in The Alzheimer's Project on HBO and it did show atrophy in both the effected and normal aged brain. It was very interesting and the therapies had a lot in common with SCI. I'm way out of my league here and hope Dr. Young comes to our rescue!
    No human society, present or past, has lacked music. Music is therefore one of the very few human universals, which puts it on the same level as food and sex.
    Fredric Lieberman

  6. #6
    Mona,
    Hi, my son goes to Project Walk and there is a guy there who came 10 years post. In fact, he post on CC, Rick1. Anyways, he has been there 3 years and now can walk assisted in a walker. I don't know about the brain thing. I do know that my son was diagnosed a C5 complete and now after a year and half has recovered lots of function and you would never know he is a C5. I think the complete thing is bunk...even his doctor said the same thing. I've met a lot of folks who were "completes" and have recovered function. I know this does not happen to everyone, but it is so discouraging and people are labeled this one week after injury. This SCI thing is just a "wait and see". I know my son feels %1000 better and stronger after he works out.
    Have a great week.
    Teri
    Luke 5:24

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mona~on~wheels's Avatar
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    Zoso I wish I had HBO that sounds good.
    Yeah wish Wise would too. Thanks so much!

    tgoodwin. Wow! Awesome! So happy for y'all.
    10 yrs is great. Thanks for sharing.
    Not sure why my physiatrist said it wouldn't change now.
    Also not at time of sci either.
    Has anyone got more when you could barely, barely feel a flicker and you didn't see anything?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mona~on~wheels View Post
    What part of the brain moves your lower body from the chest down?
    After awhile has it atrophied? Sunk in?
    What good if any does it do to try to exercise these muscles?
    My physiatrist said (for me) they wouldn't improve.
    So in that case does it help my brain?
    Just curious~

    thanks Mona
    Mona,

    Good question. There are three sources of activity that moves the lower body.

    1. Spasticity and spasms. This activity comes from neurons in the spinal cord that have become less inhibited by activity from the brain. Spasticity is increased reflexes while spasms are organized movement involving multiple muscles. I have long believed that this activity is the free "exercise" for the muscles and that people should not be suppressing this activity completely with antispasticity drugs.

    2. Brain stem and cerebellar reflexes. There are many reflexes that involve the brainstem and cerebellum. Standing and stepping, for example, is controlled in part by sensory activity that activate the brainstem and cerebellum. Standing and treadmill training facilitate these reflexes. While these are not voluntary movement and require sensory input, you can facilitate these reflexes with the brain.

    3. Voluntary activity. These come from the cortex and basal ganglia. Basically, this is the movement that you activate when you think about movement. This is mediated by the pyramidal tract and extrapyramidal tracts. The former comes directly form the motor cortex to the spinal cord, sometimes called the corticospinal tract. The latter comes from pathways that go from the cortex to the midbrain, cerebellum, and brainstem centers.

    So, some people have spasticity and spasms with little or not contributions from the brain. Note that some people are able to inhibit their spasms and spasticity. This is because many of the descending control from the brain and brainstem are inhibitory. Also, I have always been fascinated by how people's spasticity really get much worse when they are nervous or laughing, indicating that they have sending signals from the brain to the spinal cord.

    Other people are able to stand and even step, even though they are not able to voluntarily move their legs to the same extent. This is likely to come from subcortical centers (cerebellum and brainstem). For example, I was recently asked by the mother of a 21-year old woman who has been walking, why her daughter can step and walk but is unable to initiate voluntary movements of her legs.

    Finally, many people are able to move parts of their legs starting many years after injury. I know some people with ASIA A, for example, who can wiggle their toes or who can tense their quadriceps. These types of preserved motor control are common, particularly in people who are several years after spinal cord injury. Whether these are due to surviving axons or spontaneously regenerated axons is not clear. I like to think that the latter is the case because it often takes years before this kind of movement control occur.

    Wise.

  9. #9
    Wise,
    I have spastic muscles in my torso and stomach and my somewhat in my right leg. Why is Spasticity is only located in these areas? I am sensory incomplete from a surgery to remove a tumor inside my cord from C3-C7. I have regained a ton in the two years since the surgery and the spasticity actually did get a bit better. Just a question. I do live in St. Louis and had my surgery at Washington University Barnes Jewish Hospital by a brilliant neurosurgeon Dr. Neill Wright but I never did get an answer from him as to why the spasticity I have happens.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mona~on~wheels's Avatar
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    Thanks Wise.

    Well I took way too much baclofen and have cut it way down from 120 mg day to 60 mg a day. Still no spasms. I'm planning on cutting it down more soon. Taking it in slow increments.

    So there's still alot going on in the cerebellum and other parts of the brain involuntary & voluntary. Possibly regenerated axons years later.

    Thanks!

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