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Thread: Pain increases spasams and tone????

  1. #1

    Pain increases spasams and tone????

    Can anyone agree with me that when there pain increases the tone and spasams increase? I find that no matter how much valium, bachlophen or Zanaflex I take it does not help other than making me sleepy, though when I take my pain meds they virtually go right away. I hate taking meds period though I cant seem to get away without taking them. I wonder if I will be on the meds forever? If I tell the Dr I am depressed about taking my current meds Im afraid he will add an anti-depressent just adding another meds that I cant afford nor want to take. Anyway does anyone have the same problem with pain increasing spasams?

    Mark

  2. #2
    Sure do. My baclofen pump does a great job of keeping me spasm free and keeping my tone to tolerable levels, as long as my pain is also under control. But when I am in severe pain (even if it occurs in areas where I cannot feel it), my left leg starts jumping all over the place. And like you, the only way to get the spasms to stop is to get the pain levels down by taking opioid pain meds -- no amount of muscle relaxants or anti-spasticity meds will have any effect on those leg spasms.

    --THC

  3. #3
    Hi Mark I totally agree with you about the pain and increase in spasms!!! I've been having head aches and some other aches and my spasms and tone have gotten worse. Even having a baclofen pump which is supposed be all I would need to keep the spasms under control. I have only had very few days where my have been really relaxed since the pump has been put in a month ago Tuesday. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I also have bladder spasms and the 2 bladder medications I've tried either didn't work or I had something go wrong with the last one and I can't take it anymore. I know how you feel I hate taking pain meds to but if they calm your legs down I would take them. I try to stay away from them because I get loopy with the heavier stuff. I'm not sure what else to tell you except I deal with the same thing.

  4. #4
    Mark,

    Thank you for making your comment. I always appreciate it when people post specifics so I can learn more. I actually have the opposite phenomena from you. I do NOT take opiates. Not because I wouldn't if they help. They simply sedate me. I have found better sedatives than opiates. I was very impressed by the post here where someone asked if addiction to opiates was bad. I do not think so if the pain is really severe. However, opiates are not pain killers for me, they are sedatives. Now admittedly, anything which sedates will decrease the likelihood of the CNS from firing, and hence, make a difference in pain.

    My definition of pain relief is actual relief. Winding down the entire brain and consciousness is not my definition of pain relief, although it could rightly be so described. My tone, cramps, etc are NOT AD, because my blood pressure does not soar. On the other hand, I am troubled by spasms, so I may be having some hybrid form of AD, but I doubt it. The cramps, spasms, and pains in my belief are aspects of the central pain. These pains are quite severe. They are not really helped by medicine. They are helped by not moving too much, or too little.

    I see people here trying to get on stronger opioids and about an equal number trying to get off them entirely. I am troubled by what seems to be a disconnect between these polar opposites. As you say Mark, why detox if opiates are working and is it all about fear on the part of the doctor or have the opiates in fact become ineffective? how should a newcomer view all this as he/she approaches a treatment plan for themselves? This two way street confuses me as to what conclusions to draw. However, if opiates take away your pain, and the pain incapacitates you, it seems the only approach is to explain this sufficiently that some doctor will take care of you. However, i hope we don't see you back here in a year or two asking help on how to stop them.

    I have found refuge in clonazepam. It also is not a pain reliever but it does not make my doctors nervous about being accused of prescribing narcotics. It is about as good at quieting my CNS as morphine. Elavil did the same thing, but since I hope to salvage a few remaining teeth, and elavil dries out your mouth to the point where dental problems are inevitable, I use clonazapam. It is slightly more somnorific than elavil but I get to keep my teeth. Dental care is expensive so the price of elavil is too high for me, And I don't have to gamble my doctor will keep his license long enough to keep prescribing opiates.

    I am not suggesting this is the best choice for others, just for me. I fully respect the approach of each individual. If those getting prialt had been helped in their central pain, I would go that route. Neither I, nor anyone else, can explain how it is that morphine helps anyone with central pain. Since CP supposedly originates in the thalamus, which is inhibitory, I do not understand how morphine, which inhibits the inhibitory thalamus would not cause a backlash, by eventually hampering the ability of the thalamus to do its job of refining and limiting pain signal. As an oversimplification, the cord is excitatory, and the brain is inhibitory. The cord in CP becomes insanely hypersensitized by overgrowth of glial cells and excess of excitatory chemicals and peptides from those glia. Acidification of the thalamus theoretically prevents its effective filtering of the grotesque pain noise (central pain). All this is theoretical; however, I did have heavy intravenous opioids in a trial and it did absolutely nothing for my central pain.

    However, the sheer number here attesting to morphine relief is overwhelming, my own experience notwithstanding. Yet, we have so many who are trying to get off opiates that I wonder if it really took their pain away. If so, why would they want to get off it. Right or wrong, I conclude not many with severe Central Pain are rendered pain free by morphine.

    I am sorry you have pain. So many posts here break my heart. I don't always respond, but I admire the courage of everyone who fights the battle. I hope some bright PhD delivers us soon.

    P.S. Anyone over 40 or Asians taking morphine should be tested periodically for angle closure glaucoma. Also seen in use of tricyclics, topiramate, users for those at risk.
    Last edited by dejerine; 02-23-2009 at 03:59 PM.

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