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Thread: On Darwin's Birthday, Gallup Poll shows that only 4 in 10 believe in Evolution

  1. #21
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    Cool Voltaire said it best.

    " if god did not exist, man would find it necessary to invent him"

    my next favorite quote from voltaire is "common sense is not so common"

  2. #22
    Senior Member Foolish Old's Avatar
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    That's why people who preach religious dogma attack eduction and teachers first. You know, the evil "educational elite" who value science above superstition as a decision making tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenf View Post
    interesting. When your educated , you have the ability to look at things with facts , not faith.
    Foolish

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

    "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish Old View Post
    That's why people who preach religious dogma attack eduction and teachers first. You know, the evil "educational elite" who value science above superstition as a decision making tool.
    Foolish,

    It is a failure of our education system.

    According to the data, 52% of people who have had only high school education said that they did not know or had no opinion one way or another. That means that they did not learn the information that they needed to have an opinion. That is quite an indictment of our high school education system, to have 52% of Americans not getting the information they needed to answer such an important question.

    Once a person had some college education (presumably biology would be one of the courses that they took in college), the number of people who had no opinion on the subject nearly halved to 26-30%. Only 16% of people who had graduate education did not hold an opinion on evolution. So, college education is at least providing information so that people can hold an opinion.

    What is more interesting is that the number of people who did not believe in evolution did not really change so much amongst high school and college graduates. Amongst people with just high school education, the number was 27%. In people who had some college, it was 29%. In people who graduated from college, it was 22%.

    Either graduate studies reduce the number of people who don't believe in evolution to 11% or those who don't believe in evolution could not get into graduate school. We should remember that, at the higher levels, the numbers not only reflect what education does for the people but who are able to get that education.

    Wise.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Foolish Old's Avatar
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    Wise,

    It really is pretty simple. If you think of education as light and ignorance as darkness, more of the former results in less of the latter.

    Formal education came to me late in life, and even then, it was not a celebrated vintage. But I drank deeply of the available mead and became intoxicated by the possibilities revealed.

    I once believed that education and the democratization of knowledge could cure all the ills of the world. (I once also naively believed that great sex could produce world peace. It wasn't until later that I realized that it would require great love) To a large extent, I still hold that belief that an educated populace offers our best promise for Utopia. But that thought has been tempered by age and experience. Two statements in this thread are worth noting...

    The first is that a large percentage (25% was the number used) of the world population is retarded. The second is your conjecture that maybe people who do not accept evolution as fact may not have been able to earn admittance to graduate school. I do not say this facetiously. Whatever the true percentage, a significant number of folks lack the cognitive ability to synthesize complex information and draw a rational conclusion. This goes beyond those who meet text book definitions of retardation and includes a host of others with cognitive dissonance. Yet, education may one day enable discovery of modalities to address even this problem.

    Or, perhaps evolution will be it's own champion.

    But, de-evolution is also a possibility. Look at the last American administration. I would hedge my bet if I were you. Find a hobby that produces callouses. They check your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post
    Foolish,

    It is a failure of our education system.

    According to the data, 52% of people who have had only high school education said that they did not know or had no opinion one way or another. That means that they did not learn the information that they needed to have an opinion. That is quite an indictment of our high school education system, to have 52% of Americans not getting the information they needed to answer such an important question.

    Once a person had some college education (presumably biology would be one of the courses that they took in college), the number of people who had no opinion on the subject nearly halved to 26-30%. Only 16% of people who had graduate education did not hold an opinion on evolution. So, college education is at least providing information so that people can hold an opinion.

    What is more interesting is that the number of people who did not believe in evolution did not really change so much amongst high school and college graduates. Amongst people with just high school education, the number was 27%. In people who had some college, it was 29%. In people who graduated from college, it was 22%.

    Either graduate studies reduce the number of people who don't believe in evolution to 11% or those who don't believe in evolution could not get into graduate school. We should remember that, at the higher levels, the numbers not only reflect what education does for the people but who are able to get that education.

    Wise.
    Last edited by Foolish Old; 04-06-2009 at 11:06 AM.
    Foolish

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

    "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

  5. #25
    Foolish,

    Good points. Most of those who are unable to grasp certain ideas cognitively or otherwise (i.e. don't have enough time or access to the information) learn quickly to accept the opinions of others as a substitute. This, by the way, happens to everybody, including scientists. For example, when I don't understand something, I accept the opinion of somebody that I believe knows better than I would.

    I was watching last night a movie by Brooke Ellison. They did an on-the-street interview of people, asking them what they thought stem cells were. Very few (probably 1 out of 5) had any idea what stem cells were. Yet, 80% of the people held opinions concerning what to do about it. I suspect that the same is true of evolution.

    Perhaps the problem is not the ignorance of people (which has always been there) but the increasing number of ignorant and biased people who spew out misinformation about subjects that they don't understand. Some of them will be believed. Most people don't have the ability, time, or access to information to evaluate issues such as evolution and stem cells.

    They consequently choose to accept the opinions of others. Some people may choose to believe their pastors, priests, or pseudoscientists. They see movies showing humans co-existing with big dinosaurs. The theory of evolution must be wrong because the movies are always right. Movies show evil criminals who clone armies of Hitlers and cloned soldiers who hate the Force.

    Wise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish Old View Post
    Wise,

    It really is pretty simple. If you think of education as light and ignorance as darkness, more of the former results in less of the latter.

    Formal education came to me late in life, and even then, it was not a celebrated vintage. But I drank deeply of the available mead and became intoxicated by the possibilities revealed.

    I once believed that education and the democratization of knowledge could cure all the ills of the world. (I once also naively believed that great sex could produce world peace. It wasn't until later that I realized that it would require great love) To a large extent, I still hold that belief that an educated populace offers our best promise for Utopia. But that thought has been tempered by age and experience. Two statements in this thread are worth noting...

    The first is that a large percentage (25% was the number used) of the world population is retarded. The second is your conjecture that maybe people who do not accept evolution as fact may not have been able to earn admittance to graduate school. I do not say this facetiously. Whatever the true percentage, a significant number of folks lack the cognitive ability to synthesize complex information and draw a rational conclusion. This goes beyond those who meet text book definitions of retardation and includes a host of others with cognitive dissonance. Yet, education may one day enable discovery of modalities to address even this problem.

    Or, perhaps evolution will be it's own champion.

    But, de-evolution is also a possibility. Look at the last American administration. I would hedge my bet if I were you. Find a hobby that produces callouses. They check your hands.

  6. #26
    I wonder if enough elementary and high schools still take their students to museums. I was fortunate enough to have been taken on multiple formal visits to see the American Museum of Natural History as well as other museums located in NYC. You can´t beat the physical and visual experience of raw knowledge being shown to an open mind. You just can´t deny the existence of something like this display below, as well as the Carbon-14 date testing, the geological layers where these fossils were found, and so on.



    Of course, the Creation Museum knows the power of the visual as well. Check out their new display: http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/mu...exhibit-opens/
    Last edited by Mike C; 04-09-2009 at 06:29 AM.
    "So I have stayed as I am, without regret, seperated from the normal human condition." Guy Sajer

  7. #27
    Senior Member SKYCO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    I wonder if enough elementary and high schools still take their students to museums. I was fortunate enough to have been taken on multiple formal visits to see the American Museum of Natural History as well as other museums located in NYC. You can´t beat the physical and visual experience of raw knowledge being shown to an open mind. You just can´t deny the existence of something like this display below, as well as the Carbon-14 date testing, the geological layers where these fossils were found, and so on.



    Of course, the Creation Museum knows the power of the visual as well. Check out their new display: http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/mu...exhibit-opens/
    Mike C, that creation museum is not far from my house. They take kids there by the bus load to brainwash them with this bullshit.
    http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/?c=120&a=1236

  8. #28
    why can't ppl separate evolution from the thinking it automatically implies humans came from apes?? duh. evolution happens and it does not mean that. study up. it's the religious fanatics who jump on the ape/human thing.

    evolution happens every day. in the animal and plant world, the less able to survive produce offspring that can. what do you think MRSA is but an organism that has adapted? this is not rocket science. GEESH. why wouldn't god allow such a thing? i cannot understand why religious ppl reject it.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Foolish Old's Avatar
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    On any given issue, a large percentage of people make up their mind and then look for supporting evidence and disregard the rest.

    Another large group doesn't know and doesn't care about any issue they don't perceive to impact them directly and immediately.

    As stated previously, some folks just struggle with the thinking thing.

    The rest of you are intellectually capable and curious, look for objective, unbiased evidence, and go where the evidence takes you.
    Foolish

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

    "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

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