View Poll Results: Do you wear a cross?

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  • No

    80 68.97%
  • Sometimes

    17 14.66%
  • Yes

    19 16.38%
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Thread: cross

  1. #31
    Senior Member
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    Placerville, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunker View Post
    Yes I know I keeps amazing you with my superpowers. The Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John use the Greek word stau·ros′ when referring to the instrument of execution on which Jesus died. (Matthew 27:40; Mark 15:30; Luke 23:26) The word stau·ros′ refers to an upright pole, stake, or post.
    It makes good sense; why go to the trouble of a cross-piece just cause you're going to kill someone with crucifixion? Yes, you do consistently amaze me but it's not with superpowers.
    "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."

  2. #32
    Bill Hicks: "A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. Do you think when Jesus comes back he's gonna want to see a ******* cross?"
    C5/6 incomplete

    "I assume you all have guns and crack....."

  3. #33
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    Placerville, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by RehabRhino View Post
    Bill Hicks: "A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. Do you think when Jesus comes back he's gonna want to see a ******* cross?"
    Well, Bill, if he died on a stake, his feet on a nailed on wedge and arms tied above him, he's not likely to give any significance to a cross, is he? Is he Bill?
    "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."

  4. #34
    Senior Member Riaan's Avatar
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    Jul 2007
    Alberton South Africa
    i dont wear one but have one hanging in my room

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by RehabRhino View Post
    Bill Hicks: "A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. Do you think when Jesus comes back he's gonna want to see a ******* cross?"
    The cross being a Christian symbol is descended from Constantine's rule, not the early church. It was chosen due to its representation of the sword.

  6. #36
    Senior Member wheeliecoach's Avatar
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    Dec 2005
    East Haven, CT
    I wear one...I got it when my Godson was baptized and I have not taken it off since (7 years).
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot nothing's going to get better. It's not." - Dr. Seuss

  7. #37
    Senior Member nbtoppers2's Avatar
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    Jul 2005
    bowling green, kentucky
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunker View Post
    J.C. died on a "stake" not a cross.
    it was most likely a cross but not the way necklaces are..the cross is more of a T than a t...i do not wear one only because the cross of my savior or any other human wasn't/isn't pretty

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by marielea View Post
    no. i've given up on the power of prayer.
    Marielea, Fear knocked at the door and faith answered and no one was there...

  9. #39
    Senior Member Hunker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    In a wheelchair
    Quote Originally Posted by nbtoppers2 View Post
    it was most likely a cross but not the way necklaces are..the cross is more of a T than a t...i do not wear one only because the cross of my savior or any other human wasn't/isn't pretty
    Maybe so but vampires are not fond of a cross here is a testmonial from a vampire.


    Crosses are supposed to make us cower in fear and some believe they actually burn us. First of all how would you know that that particular vampire is a Christian or Catholic? They could be Jewish or Muslim or Satanic or Native American...well you get the picture.

    The truth about this myth is we feel uncomfortable in any church because all of the worshippers focusing on one thing like their cross or minister leaves latent energy laying around that is unfocused and creates ley lines.

    We feel drained and hungry if we remain inside of any church for too long but this is not because we are evil.

    Some think that we are abominations because of this but let me point out for all the religous people out there that God created everything and that includes us so we are no more evil than a wolf or cougar is.
    God created us for a reason and who is to say that they have the knowledge or the right to second guess God.

    The cross itself doesn't hurt us in any way unless it is made of silver (silver is an inhibitor) and we are wearing it, then it weakens our abilities; however, we do have a problem looking at gold.

    We will look at anything but the gold and when someone is wearing a gold cross we avoid them, but this cross would not harm us. I HAVE seen cases where a silver or gold cross blessed by a priest has burned a vampire that tried to wear it for more than a few minutes. I don't know if this is a psychological thing or a physical thing.

  10. #40
    How Jesus was crucified.

    Two Questions About Crucifixion" reads the title of a fascinating article in the April 1989 issue of Bible Review. Below it were two subheadings, "Does the Victim Die of Asphyxiation," and "Would Nails in the Hand Hold the Weight of the Body?"

    In it the author discredits the previous theory of crucifixion as formulated by A. A. LeBec in 1925 and given widespread publicity by Dr. Pierre Barbet from 1953 on, that (1) Jesus died of asphyxiation due to being unable to raise himself up to breathe, and (2) the nails through his hands were actually through his wrists (assuming the palms of the hands could not hold the body weight). It now appears that the evidence does not support Barbet's theory.

    Medical research for this project was done by Frederick T. Zugibe, who is adjunct associate professor of pathology at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, as well as author of The Cross and the Shroud--A Medical Examiner Investigates the Crucifixion. Zugibe demonstrates quite conclusively that:

    (1) Jesus did not die of asphyxiation, but rather from shock and trauma. Additionally, an impaled man with arms stretched straight over his head (as the Watchtower depicts) would suffocate in minutes, whereas a man with hands outstretched to the side at an angle of 60 70 degrees (as on a cross) could live for hours without suffocating.

    (2) There are two locations in the PALM of each HAND that will allow a nail to penetrate and carry the full body weight up to several hundred pounds, making the "wrist theory" unnecessary to explain how Christ's arms were attached to the cross.

    Years ago, LeBec and Barbet had concluded that a person hung by his arms overhead would suffocate in a manner of minutes, due to the inability of the lungs to expand and contract in such a position. Additionally, an Austrian radiologist, Hermann Moedder, experimented with medical students in the 40's, hanging them by their wrists with their hands directly above their heads (much like the Watchtower pictures Jesus on a stake). In a few minutes, the students became pale, their lung capacity dropped from 5.2 to 1.5 liters, blood pressure decreased and the pulse rate increased. Moedder concluded that inability to breathe would occur in about six minutes if they were not allowed to stand and rest.

    The same would apply to Christ, IF he were suspended on a stake as the Watchtower depicts him, hung from hands bound directly overhead. He would have suffocated in a matter of minutes.

    Zugibe, however, discovered that if students were hung by hands outstretched to the side at 60-70 degrees, they would have no trouble breathing for hours on end. Since Luke 23:44 and Matthew 27:45,46 show that Christ was on the cross for about three hours, the evidence points again to death on a traditional cross.

    Zugibe carried out his experiments using a number of volunteers who were willing to try hanging from a cross with several variations, none requiring the mutilation of their flesh or bodily damage. Special leather gloves were used to attach the hands to the crossbeam. To demonstrate that a nail through the hand could hold several hundred pounds, Zugibe, in another experiment, used the severed arms of fresh cadavers, nailing them through either of two locations in the palm of the hands (see illustration) and suspending weights from the arms (a rather gruesome experiment, to say the least!).

    If Jesus did not die of asphyxiation, then what was the cause of his death? Let's review the events of the day Christ died.

    First, Jesus experienced loss in blood volume both from perspiration and from the sweating of blood, due to his mental anguish. After being arrested, he was scourged with a leather whip that had metal weights or bone chips at the ends. As the tips penetrated the skin, the nerves, muscles and skin were traumatized. Exhaustion with shivering, severe sweating, and seizures would follow. Much body fluid would be lost. Even before being hung on the cross, Jesus may have already entered a state of shock, due to the scourging, the irritation of the nerves of the scalp due to the crown of thorns, and by being struck several times. Finally, he was nailed to the cross by large, square iron nails driven through both hands, as well as his feet. The damage to the nerves brought incredible pain, adding to the shock and loss of water. Over a period of three hours, every slight move would have brought excruciating pain. Death would result from extreme shock due to a combination of exhaustion, pain and loss of blood.

    The "Z" area and "Destot's space" will hold several hundred pounds when a nail is driven in the precise spot. (Frank Netter, courtesy of CIBA Pharmaceutical Co.)
    Roman Technique

    At the end of the first century B.C., the Romans adopted crucifixion as an official punishment for non-Romans for certain limited transgressions. Initially, it was employed not as a method of execution, but only as a punishment. Moreover, only slaves convicted of certain crimes were punished by crucifixion. During this early period, a wooden beam, known as a furca or patibulum was placed on the slave's neck and bound to his arms.

    ...When the procession arrived at the execution site, a vertical stake was fixed into the ground. Sometimes the victim was attached to the cross only with ropes. In such a case, the patibulum or crossbeam, to which the victim's arms were already bound, was simply affixed to the vertical beam; the victim's feet were then bound to the stake with a few turns of the rope.

    If the victim was attached by nails, he was laid on the ground, with his shoulders on the crossbeam. His arms were held out and nailed to the two ends of the crossbeam, which was then raised and fixed on top of the vertical beam. The victim's feet were then nailed down against this vertical stake.

    In order to prolong the agony, Roman executioners devised two instruments that would keep the victim alive on the cross for extended periods of time. One, known as a sedile, was a small seat attached to the front of the cross, about halfway down. This device provided some support for the victim's body and may explain the phrase used by the Romans, "to sit on the cross." Both Eraneus and Justin Martyr describe the cross of Jesus as having five extremities rather than four; the fifth was probably the sedile. (p. 48,49)

    In a followup article on this archeological find in the Nov/Dec. issue of BAR, the statement is made:
    According to the (Roman) literary sources, those condemned to crucifixion never carried the complete cross, despite the common belief to the contrary and despite the many modern re-enactments of Jesus' walk to Golgotha. Instead, only the crossbar was carried, while the upright was set in a permanent place where it was used for subsequent executions. As the first-century Jewish historian Josephus noted, wood was so scarce in Jerusalem during the first century A.D. that the Romans were forced to travel ten miles from Jerusalem to secure timber for their siege machinery. (p. 21)

    Similar are the details mentioned under "Cross" in the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology:

    It is certain only that the Romans practised this form of execution. But it is most likely that the stauros had a transverse in the form of a crossbeam. Secular sources do not permit any conclusion to be drawn as to the precise form of the cross, as to whether it was the crux immissa (+) or crux commissa (T). As it was not very common to affix a titlostitulus), it does not necessarily follow that the cross had the form of a crux immissa. (superscription, loanword from the Lat.

    There were two possible ways of erecting the stauros. The condemned man could be fastened to the cross lying on the ground at the place of execution, and so lifted up on the cross. Alternatively, it was probably usual to have the stake implanted in the ground before the execution. The victim was tied to the crosspiece, and was hoisted up with the horizontal beam and made fast to the vertical stake. As this was the simpler form of erection, and the carrying of the crossbeam (patibulum) was probably connected with the punishment for slaves, the crux commissa may be taken as the normal practice. The cross would probably have been not much higher than the height of a man. (Vol. 1, p. 392)

    As the years went by, "proof" was supplied by the WT to substantiate its position on the cross. In 1950 with the release of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, the appendix (pages 768-771) first argues that the Greek words stauros (Matt. 10:38) and xylon (Acts 5:30) do not mean a cross, and stated that these words only mean an upright stake without a crossbeam, and that there is no proof to the contrary.

    The Greek stauros has the primary meaning of a pole or stake, as the WT points out. What they don't mention is that the word often refers to more complex constructions, such as the cross. The Latin word crux usually translated "cross," was also at times used to refer to a mere stake. What the WT specifically ignores is that the Romans DID execute prisoners on crosses--an issue they are careful to sidestep in their presentation. The horizontal bar of such crosses was called the patibulum, and the slaves to be executed were customarily made to carry the patibulum to the place of execution. (Seneca, De Vita Beata 19:3; Epistola 101:12; Tacitus, Historiae, IV, 3)2
    Authoritative lexicons give the definition of stauros as a "stake sunk into the earth in an upright position; a crosspiece was often attached to its upper part."3

    Xylon, like stauros, can also be used to refer to a cross, a fact carefully side-stepped by the WT in their effort to prove their point. They thus fail to prove anything with regard to stauros and xylon. Therefore we must look to the historical record for more decisive proof on the method of crucifixion.
    I often heard that Jesus was crucified on a Dogwood tree and some of know that scripture said cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree.

    This scripture was before Christ died so now scriptures says the curse was taken away by the blood of Jesus Christ.

    I also heard that Dodwood trees used to be bigger. Not sure if that's true or not. Dogwoods might have been used for a reason. One reason might be is because they are very prickly on their bark. The bark looks like a nail hole with red around it. Very jagged.

    It seems people didn't bother sometimes to make a cross very often but instead went and found a small tree, cut some of their braches off and then hung a person with a crossbar to it. Much like the description above. A tree stump was fashioned, possibly with a hole to put a stake into was probably the most common way of hanging a man. I doubt women were hung on a tree.

    Pictured are three types of crosses commonly used by the Roman army in the first century A.D. Each carried an inscription stating the victim's capital offense and a seat-like projection, not designed for the victim's comfort, but to prolong their agony. Nails and ropes held the victim's legs and arms in place.
    The cross on the left was called a “high tau” cross because it was shaped like the capital Greek letter tau (“T”). The middle cross was known as a “low tau” cross, shaped like the lower case tau (“t”). In both cases the central post was generally set permanently in the ground while the cross bar was carried to the site by the victim. The cross on the right was an actual tree still in the ground (dead or alive) with its limbs serving as the cross bar. Jesus was probably crucified on a “low tau” type cross.
    Last edited by Adino; 02-12-2009 at 02:55 PM.

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