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Thread: Third International Spinal Cord Injury Treatment Beijing, News?

  1. #11
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    Dear Dogger and world traveler,

    I am sorry to say that maybe you forgot mentioning some chinese SCI patients, who attended this conference as well.

    Anyway i was very happy to see you in conference, although i didnot say hello to you in person.

    I hope you have enjoyed your stay in beijing.

    Shishi

  2. #12
    Senior Member dogger's Avatar
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    Sorry Shishi

    Please accept my apologies , tiredness caused a few differences between my mental composition of thoughts and what I wrote . I had meant to mention that there were some Chinese SCIs [along with nurses etc who appeared to be catching what they could between work committments] at the CRRC meeting and one wheelchair user [could have been some ambulatory SCIs as well] who turned up on the last afternoon at the Empark Grand conference .

    Were you the young lady in the chair who was met in the Empark Grand conference room by Wutian Wu and Suzanne Poon on arrival ? If so , I was hoping to meet you but unfortunately did not get to do so .

    I had a great time in Beijing and cannot speak highly enough of the friendliness and hospitality displayed by everyone I came in contact with . I stayed in a hotel in Zhongguan Cun and by the time I left had made a number of friends among the locals . Even though we could not actually verbally communicate there was a lot of smiles and laughter from both sides .

    Once again , please accept my apologies ,
    Dogger

    Leo , I have not forgotten your request and will post impressions , opinions , etc in a few days .
    Every day I wake up is a good one .

  3. #13
    Senior Member dogger's Avatar
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    I'll try and give a quick summary of what I took away from the conference .

    Firstly I was very impressed by the enthusiasm and professionalism displayed by the Chinese in their efforts to meet the SCI challenge . We had a look through one of their SCI facilities at the CRRC [China Rehabilitation & Research Centre] . From what I saw it is a world class SCI centre , though the figures are a bit mind boggling [it handles 500 patients each day and has 600 beds] .

    Onto the research stuff . There were many varied presentations ranging from 4AP through surgery techniques for very high quads to stem cell applications by speakers from Mainland China , Hong Kong , Taiwan , USA , India , Japan and Korea .

    To my mind there were 2 outstanding prospects in the pursuit of the ''cure'' ; one each for Acutes and Chronics .

    I'll start with the acute one . Gong Ju & Hui Zhu from the Chinese 4th Military Hospital gave a presentation on a procedure whereby they make an incision in the covering of the cord basically allowing the debris/inflammation material to escape and decompression 2 -65 days after injury of 30 SCI subjects . Assessment of the subjects was done at 17 days after surgery [when 3 months of rehabilitation began] , and after 1 , 2 and 3 months of rehabilitation . If my memory [and understanding of the translation] is correct , the researchers involved found that doing the surgery between 4 & 17 days after injury produced the best outcomes .

    The results were impressive , 60% recovered locomotion without assistance . They have now done this to 400 patients . Another amazing result [though anecdotal as it wasn't in assessment criteria] was that the 400 patients currently operated on have not suffered a bowel or bladder infection for the 12 months following surgery . This presentation created a real buzz of excitement among the researchers and others in the room .

    One US researcher asked the following question which I found interesting , ''This procedure has been tried over the past 80 years without success ; why are you getting these amazing results ?'' The reply was , ''The time frame is the secret , too soon or too late and you are wasting your time .''

    Now to chronics . The steps forward that Stephen Davies has taken with his Decorin research since I met him in DC last year are amazing . I don't think I need to say much about this as Stephen and others have posted extensively about this on CC [I'm not sure of all details posted because my internet connection has been very troublesome for the past year] . I was very interested to hear that they have discovered there are ''good'' and ''bad'' astrocytes , and their ability to produce the ''good'' astrocytes . I spent quite a bit of time with Stephen and would like to thank him for his patience in answering my questions .

    By the way , don't discount Wise Young ET Al's Lithium research . I feel confident it will be part of the jigsaw puzzle that is the quest for SCI cure .

    Now for the downside . Bureaucratic/administrative roadblocks are still a major problem . Gong Ju and Hui Zhu have been trying to get published in scientific magazines [which we all know is a step toward being accepted by the mainstream scientific/medical community and government health bureaucracy] for the past year without success . And Acorda is still beating its head up against the FDA wall with 4AP even though it has been trialled for 25 - 30 years by over 1200 subjects without major adverse effects .

    In closing , the enthusiasm and energy with which the Chinese are pursuing the SCI holy grail gave me renewed optimism that the jigsaw puzzle is falling into place .

    Thank you ,
    Dogger
    Every day I wake up is a good one .

  4. #14
    Very interesting - thanks so much Dogger.

  5. #15
    That was very interesting Dogger...I wonder if we can get these presentations some where in the net or may be posted in Youtube?

  6. #16
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    Good stuff. Still I think it is just the same less than a handful research we’ve heard about for some time, the same research ‘news’ that travels around the world in a constant cycle. –There is very little regenerative SCI research in the world I personally think.

  7. #17
    Leif lets just be glad and supportive of the docs and scientists that have dedicated themselves to helping us. The same stuff maybe, but I'm glad Dr Davies stuff keeps being brought up because that's the truth. I believe that's the only stuff that's really working, restoring function, and bringing back the motor skills. It needs to be talked about taking trials and therapies elsewhere if the U.S. is bullshitting. If China wants to talk about that, I want know because it must be working. Everybody wants to be the one to come up with the answer to curing SCI so topics must be discussed and theories must be tested over and over again. Something is about to happen and I think its Dr Davies work. Just be patient cause its going to pay off brother. Besides does anyone know if Dr Davies decorin stuff was discussed and whats the word on that. Does china want to bring that to trial. If anyone can shed some light on that Id be grateful.

  8. #18
    Senior Member dogger's Avatar
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    Hans , Stephen Davies did make a presentation on Decorin . As for the problem of being published and being accepted by the FDA ; unfortunately approval by the FDA is pretty much a fast track to being accepted world wide . This then means there would be numerous places worldwide where a therapy would be available , cutting waiting time and cost .

    Leif you old cynic , yes there are not as many researchers working on SCI as say diabetes , but this is normal ''supply , demand driven '' by the numbers afflicted . In 2 weeks I'll be in New Zealand at my 5th SCI related conference in 18 months . At each conference I notice new research and older research progressing . The acute procedure I posted about is evidence of the former . Decorin is a good example of the latter , the advances made between hearing about it at a conference last year and in Beijing are amazing . Of course along the way they have found and overcome new obstacles .

    I think I have a different perspective of the cure time frame to that of newer injuries . When I was injured in early 1991 the pessimists reckoned SCI would never be cured while the optimists thought it would be , sometime in the next century . It has been very interesting watching research emerging that gives confidence the time to cure is decreasing to a point where I will probably benefit from it .

    Thank you ,
    Dogger
    Last edited by dogger; 11-09-2008 at 02:09 AM. Reason: spelling error
    Every day I wake up is a good one .

  9. #19
    Thanks Dogger and World Traveler!

  10. #20
    This is good news .I do hope it come's soon. Can i say to any one if you see any of the Doctor's ask tham when will thay go public with it .IF only to gave us all hope ?Than it would stop all the innocent people around the world spending money on a so call cure and come out and say that in a few year's we will some thing and to be sitting on the fence For if you sit on it to long you will get splinter's in you ass

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