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Thread: Noah's Ark Replica Schagen Netherlands

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mona~on~wheels
    Tood, may I ask why you studied the bible so diligently?
    I was passionate about it when joining my church. I'd rather believe there is a God, which I do, rather than believe there isn't.

    Ultimately, I left my church over what I saw as major scare tactics and fear preaching. They used every trick to get you to go to the altar threatening that you may die in your car on the way home and go to Hell. I didn't connect to their message of eternal damnation the more I seriously thought about it.

    I believe in God, and the probability of Christ's divinity, but not in eternal punishment. To me, it serves no purpose to God or to humankind to be punished infinitely solely for being born. God foreknew the end from the beginning before the earth's foundation and I doubt eternal punishment ever entered His mind. In fact, the Bible says in the Old Testament the thought of burning anyone "never entered into His mind." This was in response to the Israelites burning their children in fire as a sacrifice to Molech. God responded by thinking they were insane.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Mona~on~wheels's Avatar
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    So do you go to another church? did you get saved?

    I don't think about hell and damnation.
    Whether it does or doesn't exist. It's not on my mind.
    I know there's a God. I believe Jesus died for my sins.
    I know I'm saved and I'm going to Heaven.
    I want everyone to know God and how wonderful he is.
    So they can have peace and go to Heaven too.
    I try to be the best I can be, and do as God would want me to do.
    I ask God to forgive me where I fall short, and thank him for everything!
    Literally everything.
    I wish I'd made better choices earlier in life, but I didn't.
    So I can't relive it.
    I do think there's lots, lots we don't know.
    I think God is a much bigger God than most people believe.
    I'm glad you're a believer.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mona~on~wheels
    So do you go to another church? did you get saved?
    Mona,

    My church was a United Pentecostal Church and I sat in the pew for two years believing I'd die and go to Hell because I had yet to speak in tongues. I've still not spoken in tongues to this day. Do I love the teachings of Jesus? Yes. If He indeed was divine, do I consider Him my Lord and my Savior? Yes, I do.
    According to UPC doctrine, you must be baptized a particular way and speak in tongues to be considered saved. That line of thinking had been stuck in my head for quite some time as well.

    An eye-opener for me was when I saw an unrepentant rapist in our church, the pastor's nephew, dance around and speak in tongues with others. It struck me that there possibly were some good actors within the church that acted the part to feel included. I could never be that dishonest and so every time I prayed for the Holy Ghost and didn't speak in tongues, I felt rejected and like a failure. It confused me because I was so certain of my sincerity towards God. Months before leaving my church, I was so fed up with being convinced I didn't have the Holy Ghost, I got out of the pew as a paraplegic and I crawled to the altar on my arms to pray. My grandmother asked the members how I there, and they told her he crawled. It was to me the ultimate act of humility and desperation and I still didn't speak in tongues that night. So I wonder how much the focus on speaking in tongues is damaging to believer who believes himself to be rejected because he doesn't speak in tongues.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Mona~on~wheels's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Todd. Sounds like a very sad church.
    God is watching them and knows how wrong they're treating his children.
    You're very educated on the bible and you must know now that speaking in tongues is a gift for some of the believers and has nothing to do with earning salvation.
    I'm sure that is very, very damaging to believers to know they love God and wonder why they can't speak in tongues.
    No wonder so many are turned off to churchs and to God.
    Salvation only requires one thing:
    Believe and confess that Jesus died on the cross for your sins.
    That's it! So by your own account you're saved Todd.
    God loves you so much and he knows your heart.
    He knows how much you loved him that night you crawled to the altar with your arms. I'm sure you have a very special place in God's heart.
    I'm so sorry you got involved with such a sinful church.
    I hope you find another church body that will care for you the way you deserve.
    Please don't let their sinful ways hurt you any more.
    They were wrong and God will deal with them.
    I'm sorry. This has really touched my heart and I wish I could do more than say I'm sorry Todd. {hugs} Mona

  5. #25
    Mona,

    Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately, my story is not uncommon. Catholics have felt betrayed by the Vatican over the sexual abuse scandal, believers have felt betrayed by preachers who were doing shady and sometimes outrageous things in secret. A lot of people who love God have often been hurt by the religious leaders, wolves in sheep's clothing, those who profess piety in the name of making money or gaining power.

    The most important lesson for me is to embrace that the Kingdom of God is within the human individual. You can only be responsible for yourself and your righteous deeds. If you rely too heavily on a person to guide you, you'll almost certainly be disappointed because we're all flawed and you cannot know the extent of another's passion towards God.

    My parents and I are polar opposites when it comes to charity. I love to give to others and believe in sacrificing for others. My mother thinks charity begins at home, misunderstanding the purpose of that platitude in my opinion. I find many humans self-serving whereas I am self-sacrificing. I love to forgive, while many others love to grudge. People don't get it! Jesus was so adamant about being a light to the world. While facing the prospect of losing my malpractice lawsuit, I told myself I'd show a sign of peace towards the doctors if I did. Indeed, I lost my lawsuit and offered my hand and sign of peace to the doctor, one quickly left before I could do the same to him, and one of my lawyers witnessed my doing so and it moved him to tears. To me, that is what the Gospel is about. It's not about condemnation and threatening others. It's merely about love, forgiveness, and not rendering evil for evil. Do I get angry at times? Of course, I do. I'm human, but I get over it and ultimately still love and forgive those who've been unjust to me. One of the thoughts that delight me most is being an advocate for my enemies on earth when they face God in judgment. Like Jesus said, if you're good to those who're good to you, what do you accomplish? Nothing. But if you're good to those who're evil or unjust to you, then you've overcome the world and shown grace as God has.

    I don't see the crucifixion of Jesus nearly as darkly and grotesque as many believers do. In my mind, it wasn't about God dying to appease His demands for blood or anything like that. To me, it was staged by God to show His love for His creation. As Jesus said, no love is greater than the one that dies to spare the life of another. Therefore, God did this to express this to us. God is love. In my opinion, God is whatever Light is, and His adversary is the Dark. God is a fire. Incidentally, these fit God quite well because darkness cannot get darker than absolute darkness, but light can always get brighter infinitely. Also, coldness has a limitation as well, but heat can become infinitely hotter, like light. So you see, by these comparisons, God is poetically saying to us that He is indeed infinite, whereas the Devil, evil, sin and death have limitations and an ending.
    Last edited by Le Todd; 10-12-2008 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Fixing typo

  6. #26
    Senior Member Imight's Avatar
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    All Im saying is why were there so many miracles like that in the past, but none now? I want to see someone turn water into wine. That's all I'm saying


    and you know whats really funny, if a magician does such a trick, they call him demonic. lololol

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mona~on~wheels
    The story of Noah in the bible was recorded first. The other religious texts copied it.
    You couldn't be more wrong. There is almost nothing original in Xian mythology. I'm not saying that invalidates the religion, but you need to be aware of the fact that people have been telling similar stories for millenia. For instance, just Google "Flood Stories" or "Sacrificial God Myths" and see what comes up.

    C.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mona~on~wheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Fran├žais
    Mona,

    Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately, my story is not uncommon. Catholics have felt betrayed by the Vatican over the sexual abuse scandal, believers have felt betrayed by preachers who were doing shady and sometimes outrageous things in secret. A lot of people who love God have often been hurt by the religious leaders, wolves in sheep's clothing, those who profess piety in the name of making money or gaining power.

    The most important lesson for me is to embrace that the Kingdom of God is within the human individual. You can only be responsible for yourself and your righteous deeds. If you rely too heavily on a person to guide you, you'll almost certainly be disappointed because we're all flawed and you cannot know the extent of another's passion towards God.

    My parents and I are polar opposites when it comes to charity. I love to give to others and believe in sacrificing for others. My mother thinks charity begins at home, misunderstanding the purpose of that platitude in my opinion. I find many humans self-serving whereas I am self-sacrificing. I love to forgive, while many others love to grudge. People don't get it! Jesus was so adamant about being a light to the world. While facing the prospect of losing my malpractice lawsuit, I told myself I'd show a sign of peace towards the doctors if I did. Indeed, I lost my lawsuit and offered my hand and sign of peace to the doctor, one quickly left before I could do the same to him, and one of my lawyers witnessed my doing so and it moved him to tears. To me, that is what the Gospel is about. It's not about condemnation and threatening others. It's merely about love, forgiveness, and not rendering evil for evil. Do I get angry at times? Of course, I do. I'm human, but I get over it and ultimately still love and forgive those who've been unjust to me. One of the thoughts that delight me most is being an advocate for my enemies on earth when they face God in judgment. Like Jesus said, if you're good to those who're good to you, what do you accomplish? Nothing. But if you're good to those who're evil or unjust to you, then you've overcome the world and shown grace as God has.

    I don't see the crucifixion of Jesus nearly as darkly and grotesque as many believers do. In my mind, it wasn't about God dying to appease His demands for blood or anything like that. To me, it was staged by God to show His love for His creation. As Jesus said, no love is greater than the one that dies to spare the life of another. Therefore, God did this to express this to us. God is love. In my opinion, God is whatever Light is, and His adversary is the Dark. God is a fire. Incidentally, these fit God quite well because darkness cannot get darker than absolute darkness, but light can always get brighter infinitely. Also, coldness has a limitation as well, but heat can become infinitely hotter, like light. So you see, by these comparisons, God is poetically saying to us that He is indeed infinite, whereas the Devil, evil, sin and death have limitations and an ending.
    Todd you've got it! That's far and few between.
    Every time you love another as you've described,
    the Holy Spirit multiplys inside you and fills you full of joy.
    Making it much more pleasureable to give than receive.
    I'm not sure I'll say this right but,
    It says some where in the bible that when Christians meet
    you'll recognize God's spirit inside each other,
    and I feel that way about you today.
    I feel blessed from talking to you.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    You couldn't be more wrong. There is almost nothing original in Xian mythology. I'm not saying that invalidates the religion, but you need to be aware of the fact that people have been telling similar stories for millenia. For instance, just Google "Flood Stories" or "Sacrificial God Myths" and see what comes up.

    C.
    Actually, Noah's (Noach's) story was not recorded in the Bible first but in the Torah. At the time of the flood (Noah's time), Judaism did not yet exist and neither, obviously, did Christianity or Islam. The vast majority of the world at that time was polytheistic and so it is natural that these people would attribute the flooding to polytheistic or natural causes..

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